The Last Drink In The Last Chance Saloon
12/07/2012 7,916 Comments
It is roughly seventeen months since this project started. Despite all of the revelations from this blog, and from other ‘new media’ outlets, little has changed in the world of Scottish football. This might seem a strange claim given that the largest football club in the country has become insolvent and now sits on corporate death-row awaiting its execution. However, the major institutions that feed on the blood of Scottish football fans: the SFA; the SPL; and the newspapers- appear to have learned little from events in this time.
They still believe that the people who pay their wages are imbeciles. They still dish out fatuous lies and peddle disinformation as if Sir David Murray was still in his heyday. The hysterical exaggerations and tales of impending financial doom should be transparent to the businessmen who fill most of the Chairman roles at Scottish football clubs. Anyone with even a few minutes of business experience will see through the lies of the Scottish football establishment. These scare stories are not the issue. It is the dangling of long requested changes in the structure of the Scottish game that will present clubs from both the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League with a dilemma.
From their public statements, it is clear that the driving forces behind this attempt at league-rigging are SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan and SPL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster. Despite being paid to promote the Scottish game, they have spent recent weeks trying to convince advertisers and TV companies that their product is worthless without someone representing Rangers’ legacy playing in the SFL1 next season. It is as if Sevco Ltd was a panacea and that this new club will be guaranteed promotion to the SPL within a single season.
Let us be in no doubt. Scottish football faces a period of turmoil and some financial belt-tightening regardless of what happens in any of the upcoming votes. (If Servco Ltd are forced to start in SFL3, the nattering nabobs of the mainstream Scottish sports press will doubtless blame every player transfer and setback on ‘internet bampots’ and shortsighted fans of so-called ‘diddy teams’). The Scottish game became unsustainable and unhealthily unbalanced towards just two clubs. In an era when it is easy to watch the best football from every country all week long, we need to extract the cancers that have been devouring our game for over twenty years rather than battling to preserve them. Among the assorted symptoms of the illness facing our game are:
- Scottish football has failed to develop a single stand-out talent since the early 1980s
- Scottish football has been spending more than it takes in for far too long
- Scottish football has fallen far behind global standards in the quality of entertainment it offers
Scottish football had become dull and uninteresting for all but the fans of the two clubs that could entertain thoughts of ever winning the league.
There is a now a golden opportunity for creative minds to remake the game. Instead, we have intellectual pygmies telling us that everything in Scottish football is fantastic and must be saved at all costs. What is worth saving? Declining attendances? A terrible set of TV contracts that do not realise the full value of the Scottish game? A national team that cannot qualify for any international competitions? We have a game that is viewed with universal contempt for both its lack of technical quality and the lopsidedness of its top division. This is where our game finds itself almost three decades after the “Souness Revolution” started at Rangers. The false economies started by David Holmes, and placed on steroids by David Murray, eventually devastated all around it. Rangers embodied the ideas that financial might made right and reckless spending was the key to success. Their demise should be a cautionary tale to others to get their house in order. Instead, the Scottish football establishment wants to send the signal that if you are going to fail, make sure you do it on a spectacular scale: we will make everyone else carry you if it goes wrong.
Mr. Doncaster trained as a lawyer and has an MBA. If Scottish football was a case study at a business school, anyone submitting a paper that recommended crushing the last remnants of fairness in the game to prop up a failed old-order would not get a passing mark. Doncaster in particular is failing. (Funny that Messers Doncaster & Regan find it so easy to predict the effects of Sevco Ltd playing in SFL3, but could not use these same skills to anticipate Rangers’ implosion. Even when the aforementioned ‘internet bampots’ had warned years earlier of a crisis brewing at Ibrox, the men with the crystal ball today were unable to see something that was so obvious). When the dust settles on this disaster one way or another, one can only hope that Doncaster and Regan have absented themselves. It is clear that they lack the imaginations required to improve our game. Our hopes for restoring the thrill of Scottish football now rests on the men who run the clubs in the SPL and the SFL. We must hope that they have the backbone to stand-up to being bullied and the foresight to realise that all that is being dangled by Regan & Doncaster can be obtained anyway- without sacrificing the game and without the hired hands for whom this all appears to be just a job.
If fairness fails and Sevco Ltd is able to field a team in the SFL1 next season, it is for each fan to make an individual decision on whether it is worth returning to watch a game played with loaded dice. For those who do decide to go back (I am still undecided), something will still be missing in the game. An unfillable void will have opened. The men who will vote on this decision have to realise that they are not just voting on short-term revenues. They are going to irreparably alter the Scottish game whatever happens. Money will ebb and flow in football in proportion to the excitement and quality of the competition. If fans believe that there is no competition because a winner is preordained, money will leave and it will stay gone.
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Poll:
Trying something new. Bear with me if this turns out to be a bridge too far for my technical skills.
About rangerstaxcase
Rangers Tax Case 
Regards the $ky media advertising campaign, maybe it was pre-planned, already paid for campaign.
Or maybe its a corporate damage limitation, reputation management exercise to balance the flak that they may be expecting to receive in the near future.
scottyjimbo I beleive Chico has not renewed the public liabilities insurance as its not pressing at the moment
ADM says:
18/07/2012 at 7:04 pm
The SFL clubs have, by admitting Rangers/”Rangers”/Sevco to SFL3, implicitly accepted that Sevco are the continuation of Rangers. If not, why would the clubs accept Rangers ahead of Spartans/Cove Rangers/any one of dozens of clubs that apparently meet the criteria better?
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No, I think they’ve accepted that the RFC(ex) fans believe that Sevco are a continuation of Rangers.
Therefore, there is a potentially large support with lots of money to throw at this tissue of lies.
The SFL clubs will take the cash, which Cove or Spartans wouldn’t bring with them, thanks.
As an Aberdeen fan, I don’t really want those re-awarded titles, thanks. They mean nothing now. Most of the enjoyment in winning the League comes from actually doing it at the time. The permutations of scores that will win it, the listening on radio towards the end of the season and working out the League standings before they come on the telly (this in the days of Saturday 3pm kick-offs all round, mind). The half-time scoreboard on the old South Terrace at Pittodrie where a guy hvng up metal numbers on hooks for the scores, with the key to the games A-B-C-D etc in the programme. Then having the bright idea of taking a tranny to the fitba to keep up with the scores yourself!
I remember, as a youngster, listening to the Aberdeen – Hibs 5-0 game on the radio whilst having a kickabout in Portsoy school playground when we clinched the League in 1980. That, to me, is what winning the League was and should be about. Not about having a helicopter on standby with blue and green ribbons on board year after year.
To have a number bumped up somewhere on the matchday programme means nothing.
Just make them “not awarded”, please.
Plus ca change (cedilla omitted) – so, Messrs (Bros?) Murray and Mather met the ‘fans’ in the Louden – why not the District or that cute little hall nearby, with all the bright flags outside? Clearly the intention is to play the ‘Or*nge Card’ (cf Randolph Churchill) – a dangerous ploy; it may not even be their ace, although it is the deuce for the rest of Scottish football.
Mr Mather, in spite of the name, may be English and not ‘know’, but Mr Murray sure as hell does. He’s turning out to be just as pompous and odious as his predecessors.
Sugar Daddy @ 8:28 pm
Not only sports, but broadband and phone
If Sky choose to withdraw from Scottish football, it will in my view mean that RFC (IA), the the most corrupt club ever in British football, means more to them, than standing by the honest clubs
If they do pull out or reduce the contract, it would be no more than you would expect from a company part owned by NewsCorp
patnajoe says:
18/07/2012 at 8:40 pm
” scottyjimbo I beleive Chico has not renewed the public liabilities insurance as its not pressing at the moment ”
Thanks Joe.One might have thought that the revenue from a few home games would far outweigh a couple of weeks insurance premiums. But maybe not.
I wonder if the new club finally get into D3, Charles Green will give any consideration to going part time. All the other teams are and, if guys like Alexander, Perry and Wallace do decide to leave, what has he got to lose?
scottyjimbo says:
18/07/2012 at 8:23 pm
Asbestos?
RTC. Am I still in moderation?
Para Handy says:
18/07/2012 at 8:31 pm
‘John, if I may be so presumptuous to call you by your first name?’
—
I’ve been called a whole lot of things, so it’s a treat to be called John.
And on the subject of names, there was I thinking you had chosen yours in homage to Roddy MacMillan/ Neil Munro rather than through your military connection!
As a matter of interest, my brother-in-law was in the Paras. ( First time I spent any time with him was when we went to see the film/documentary of the ’66 world cup, shortly after he left the army)
He was a genuine Partick Thistle supporter ( although his favourite sport was basketball), his old man having had a long connection with the club.
I agree with your observation about 3rd Lanark, in particular. The guys that are restoring the ground were doing a great job last time I heard.
If a team could emerge and apply to the SFL….
Thanks RTC.
Sugar Daddy says:
18/07/2012 at 8:28 pm
24 5 Rate This
If Doncaster is as bad as we fear at negotiating a fair deal out of Sky, ESPN & BBC, as bizarre as it seems, we are going to need to give him a hand.
Sky Sports Pack is £21, ESPN is £10 with SSP or £13 stand alone.
31 days cancellation time.
Will you cancel your sports pack if Sky try and screw over Scottish football for doing the right thing?
TU Yes, I want to help
TD No, I just like to talk about it
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Option C ~ I don’t have a sports package. I’m with Virgin (the XL TV package) which includes ESPN as standard.
Angus says:
18/07/2012 at 8:43 pm
‘….The half-time scoreboard on the old South Terrace at Pittodrie where a guy hvng up metal numbers on hooks for the scores, with the key to the games A-B-C-D etc in the programme.’
—
Hey, those old score-boards were the last word in technology at the time! I wonder if any have been preserved at the Hampden museum?
Wynnvegas says:
18/07/2012 at 5:45 pm
On the question of compensation for lost CL money there would be no point Celtic pursuing “Rangers”.
However there was a club licensing process in place that whilst not quite as rigorous as the UEFA FFP rules introduced this year (or was it last?) nevertheless contained many of the components of UEFA FFP 2010 that had the process been applied properly by the SFA, might arguably have resulted in a licence to play in UEFA competitions not being granted.
On this basis Celtic and other clubs could try suing the SFA, although I imagine there are rules in place to stop that. However that does not stop the threat of sue and be damned being made in order to exert the kind of leverage on the SFA to commit to a thorough review of all the processes such as club licensing as well as refereeing standards that have been a cause for complaint to the SFA by Celtic.
angus at 8;43.
taking the titles away from rangers is not a punishment. it is not done out of spite. it will be done because it is the right and just thing to do.
rangers would not have won these titles if they had not broken the rules. they bought players they could not otherwise afford because they abused the law of the land and they bought players they didn’t pay for. that is why they were able to win these titles. remember that three of these titles were won on the last day of the season. that is how close these campaigns were. without the cheating rangers would not have won these titles.
they should be disqualified and the rightful winners should be awarded the trophies.
justice will be done.
Has there been any announcement yet that Rangers will be joining SFL3.
There was an announcement that they would be allowed to apply, have they done so yet?
If not get the SPL license, move everyone else up and fill the place, stop dithering.
ADM says:
18/07/2012 at 7:04 pm
The SFL clubs have, by admitting Rangers/”Rangers”/Sevco to SFL3, implicitly accepted that Sevco are the continuation of Rangers. If not, why would the clubs accept Rangers ahead of Spartans/Cove Rangers/any one of dozens of clubs that apparently meet the criteria better?
—
Angus says:
18/07/2012 at 8:41 pm
..No, I think they’ve accepted that the RFC(ex) fans believe that Sevco are a continuation of Rangers.’
Therefore, there is a potentially large support with lots of money to throw at this tissue of lies.”
The SFL clubs will take the cash, which Cove or Spartans wouldn’t bring with them, thanks.’
———-
I think the position is that they’re actually not yet in the SFL. And the possibility remains that they may still not get in.
The SFL clubs merely voted that they would have no objection to them being in. But they still have to merit being in by satisfying the essential criteria.
Without having considered the merits of other applications, the SFL could not have ‘admitted’ one club over the others.
If Celtic pursued Rangers for lost CL monies would that then be considered a football debt which must be paid?? Would it then force Sevco to deny any connection with Oldco whatsoever therefore clarifying for the hard of thought brigade that their team has gone.
John Clarke 8.29
If Mather isn’t paying for his 10% in cash, I can’t see why the consortium would bring in a
Johnny-come-lately. Why cut a shrinking cake into even smaller slices in return for a mere promise of money ?
Have I been sine die’d?
john clarke says:
18/07/2012 at 6:22 pm
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Auldheid says:
18/07/2012 at 3:48 pm
‘…..New club, licence and membership of SFL and SFA exceptionally granted on the basis that the new club accepts how much it has erred, the damage done and will condemn the kind of behaviour on the terraces and Boardroom that have caused so much damage and find an ethos to be proud rather than ashamed off.’
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I agree with your sentiments.
But I tend to get hvng up on the vexed question of how the SFA can be required to abide by their own rules ( by treating Sevco’s application as a new application (if and when they are actually accepted into the SFL) and yet be asked to treat them as if they were the old club by transferring the penalties attaching to the old club.
I don’t know how that conundrum can be resolved without some breaching of the Articles.
Your suggestion is very attractive, of course. But it would require a breach of natural justice ( i.e punishing an ‘innocent’ party for the wrongdoings of another) , which, I think, is more grave than a breach of a man-made rule.
I am therefore driven to conclude that, to avoid breach of any rule, Sevco ( if properly admitted to the SFL) should have their application for membership of the SFA dealt with under the Articles, that is,as a new club, unconnected historically with the old club, and therefore not subject to the penalties imposed on the old club.
Only in this way will the record show clearly that the old club died, and the completely new club ( even if playing in blue at Ibrox and with the word Rangers in their name) has no claim to the history or ‘achievements’ of the old.
And all of us can hope and expect that those men personally responsible for the misdeeds (whether footballing or criminal) and the covering up of the misdeeds, of the old club are sooner rather than later brought to book in respect of each type of wrongdoing.
==============================
I have no problem with that at all, it would follow the path of true forgiveness. My reading of it is that Sevco want the commercial benefits of being identified with Oldco but do not want to admit to the sins of Oldco (if I may use bible terminology).
If they were to do that with a committment not to continue with those sins I would forgive i.e set aside the rules that prevent Sevco being granted both SFA Membership and a licence.to play in the SFL. I have no desire to prevent decent Rangers supporters from following their team, particularly if it adapted their ethos of decency.
I would also forgive Oldco their sins if they were to recognise them BUT forgiveness does NOt mean setting aside the requirements of natural justice. I might for example forgive a burglar who broke into my house if he expressed real contrition, but I would not expect the law, which is based on natural justice to pardon him. Thus stripping Oldco of their titles and forgiving Sevco for the sins of Oldco if contrition were real, would be in keeping with the tenets of truel forgiveness that always has to be done from self respect.
What we are up against here is denial of not only what Rangers did wrong but all that was wrong about Rangers. Until that denial is broken it will be more of the same old arguments.
No truth, no reconciliation.
Still in moderation then I assume
Regarding the debate on what do about the championship titles which must be taken from Rangers, this is really not difficult.
Every game in which Rangers fielded ineligible players is recorded as a 3-0 victory for their opponents. The points are totalled up for the season. The team which has the most points is awarded the title.
I’ve paid tens of thousands of pounds over the years to see my team competing for the championship title and I’ll be damned if I’m going to settle for seeing an asterisk taking the place of a title which my team won fair and square.
The only reason that those titles weren’t awarded to the correct team at the end of each season is because the game was so riddled with corruption that nobody enforced rules that would have deprived Rangers of their unfair advantage.
Successive SFA and SPL officials came from Ibrox and allowed this cheating to go unchecked. Successive directors at Rangers FC, at best neglected their responsibilities to ensure that their business was on the straight and narrow. At worst, they actively perpetuated the cheating. The bank which happily turned a blind eye to Murray’s financial recklessness and – as is now becoming clearer and clearer – sheer criminality happily wiped other clubs off the face of the earth and threatened others, including mine, with winding up procedures.
And all this time, I was forking out over a thousand pounds per season to see my team competing in tournaments which were supposed to be fair. It was bad enough to be seething with frustration at what I knew at the time were biased refereeing performances; now that it is apparent that the beneficiaries of this bias were not even eligible to compete, never mind take the honours, the frustration has hardened into a righteous and completely justified anger.
This institutionalised fraud will not be rectified with an asterisk.
The very first principle of atonement is to make restitution as far as that is possible. The very minimum requirement is to return what has been stolen to its rightful owners. In the case of at least five titles, that means presenting those titles to the team which won the most points in accordance with the Laws of the Game of Association Football and in line with the rules and regulations of the SFA and SPL. Absolutely nothing less than that will do.
And that should only be a starting point.
There is no room for compromises here.
There is a constant creep in the mainstream media towards an assumption that Rangers have suffered enough and that those who want to see them pay in full for their colossal wrongdoing are being vindictive. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The issue is purely about fairness. It is fundamentally unfair that hardened, habitual cheats should receive any leniency when those who did nothing wrong whatsoever were seriously disadvantaged, suffered considerable loss of prestige, were wrongly deprived of sporting honours and were financially damaged. In some cases, the financial damage was a mortal blow.
An asterisk won’t cut it.
A bit surprised that CG hasn’t called it a day. He has his get outs of not being in SPL or div 1, and only days left of his get out from D&P. If this is an asset grab, why keep up the pretence which must be costing serious revenue?
Is he a for real football owner/chairman now? Maybe he was in it for the cash at first and has now been seduced by the dark side? (Maybe D&P were too!)
Is this the first star wars reference? I remember all the fun when fish references were in vogue here.
SparTicketus says:
18/07/2012 at 9:36 pm
‘..If Mather isn’t paying for his 10% in cash, I can’t see why the consortium would bring in a
Johnny-come-lately. Why cut a shrinking cake into even smaller slices in return for a mere promise of money ?’
—
Sorry, Sparticketus. I expressed myself very badly.
What I meant was that while he will have put up £1M in cash as a very necessary injection to meet current costs, it would perhaps have been secured against something more tangible than 10% of the total value of the company, which might end up being worth, say, only £5M., of which 10% would be only 500K!
Whereas, if he had a floating charge over , say, MP, he might be more sure of getting his £1M back if the company founders.
I am , as ever, open to correction as I stray into areas about which I know next to nothing.
henry, you just got my vote.
Essex beancounter says:
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18/07/2012 at 10:07 pm
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john clarke says:
18/07/2012 at 9:07 pm
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As a matter of interest, my brother-in-law was in the Paras. ( First time I spent any time with him was when we went to see the film/documentary of the ’66 world cup, shortly after he left the army)
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JC…I remember that film…called “Goal”…marvellous stuff in its time.
I do remember the graphic close-ups of the Portuguse and Hvngarians kicking lumps out of Pele…he was carried off twice.
Just a shade more robust physical as your namesake, without the “e”, was towards him in a friendly at Hampden a few weeks’ previously…the memories of youth!
Some people on here are saying that to award stripped competition wins of RFC to runners-up would open complicated arguments so best left alone.
One of the main attractions of this blog is the forensic analysis of such complicated issues!
Re: EBT and title removals … Wonder if the “negotiation” element and the binding confidentiality between SFA, SPL, SFL and Spivcos various names (and wasn’t it revealing to see 3 listed) , was intended to seal up the evidence so there would be no public exposure of the detailed findings of the ‘investigation”? As far as compensation is concerned, Celtic could get none from the dead carcass but what if SFA knew and knew a fair few years ago … ? (Smith/Ogilvie even Wallace when he was an SFA employee).
Of course, now the genie has wriggled out of the lamp, not sure how even the SFA and SPL could finesse a “we were only going to take the titles off them if they were in SFL1” argument …
Arguably if (and I acknowledge that we await the verdict so this whole post deals with a hypothetical situation) Rangers are found to have used EBTs and dual contracts in ways that were impermissible the removal of any titles and cups won during that period would NOT be a sanction.
As far as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), if a club fields dual contract players that fact would render that club ineligible for the competition because these players were improperly registered. Removal of any titles/trophies won under these circumstances would not be a punishment but a recognition that any team was ineligible to compete in the first instance and therefore could NEVER be deemed winners of (or indeed bona fide competitors in) any of these competitions. The record of any team competing ineligibly under these circumstance would require to be wholly erased from the competition.
Sanctions or punishments are what ought to follow the removal of trophies and the erasure of records of a team competing ineligibly
When a winning athlete is found – after the award ceremony – to have tested positive for a banned substance the removal of that athlete’s name from the record is NOT the punishment or the sanction. The athlete entered the competition ineligible to compete so the revoking of the award simply recognises that fact. The punishment comes when the athlete is banned from subsequent competition.
In addition and with due respect to those who argue otherwise, I believe that if (that critical word…:-)) Rangers is found to have acted improperly, and titles/ cup wins are then revoked, these trophies should subsequently be awarded to those who finished as runners-up (whether or not the clubs affected want them or not). Why?
Because justice demands that there be a setting straight of the record and ultimately that is not for the clubs to decide upon – it is for the SFA. If we do reach this point it will be incumbent upon the SFA to conduct – in an honourable and appropriate way – an award ceremony that gives due recognition to those who ought to have been the victors at the time. In such an eventuality It will be critical that the SFA strain every sinew to redress as much as it can the wrongs of the past. And if all this transpires it will be vital to the redemption of a “new” Rangers that it as a club unreservedly and humbly recognises the full entitlement of other clubs to these trophies.
All of this would not preclude in any way the use of asterisks in any re-writing of record books that would take place if this scenario materialises – indeed I believe the records would have to contain adequate explanations of what happened in these years for them to be intelligible to readers.
John Clarke 10.03
Could be secured – but that sounds more like a loan. Surely, nobody else can pull off one of these Glazers/CW ” I’ll buy YOUR club with YOUR money” tricks.
And doesn’t any new security need the approval of existing security holders ? Does that mean CW and Ticketus in addition to the existing consortium ? This is too complicated. I give up……
gerrylentils says:
18/07/2012 at 9:22 pm
… they should be disqualified and the rightful winners should be awarded the trophies.
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I fully understand why the titles should be removed from (ex)Rangers.
However, quite apart from the fact that I as an Aberdeen fan wouldn’t want them after they’d been sitting in Castle Greyskull all those years, I do believe that there are so many variables that it wouldn’t be right to re-award them to someone else.
The second placed team is the easy option, but not necessarily the team who would have ended up second had RFC been absent.
Quick example – team gets humped 5-0 by RFC, and confidence is shot for the next week’s game where they get beat by a team they’d usually expect to win against. Then they go on a losing streak as morale is sapped. They get the 3-0 victory awarded, but other results stand.
Conversely, they beat RFC at Ibrox, and are on a high and go on a winning streak due to the confidence boost (this doesn’t apply to Aberdeen, who have always been quite capable of beating RFC 3-0 away, then losing to Buckie Thistle a few days later).
Or a player gets crocked by one of the RFC carthorses and misses half a dozen games. Again, they get the 3-0, but they lost their star player. Same thing applies to red/yellow cards, frequently the subject of honest mistakes when RFC were the opposition. Suspension of players, weakening the team.
Scottish Cups, same idea. Every team RFC played could say they’d have had a chance had they gone through.
Too many variables. I say asterisk those titles.
Was there another meeting today re their application?
where are the thought police when you need them? says:
18/07/2012 at 10:17 pm
In addition and with due respect to those who argue otherwise, I believe that if (that critical word…:-)) Rangers is found to have acted improperly, and titles/ cup wins are then revoked, these trophies should subsequently be awarded to those who finished as runners-up (whether or not the clubs affected want them or not). Why?
Because justice demands that there be a setting straight of the record and ultimately that is not for the clubs to decide upon – it is for the SFA.
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An entirely acceptable viewpoint. I see both sides of the current “argument”.
However, can you see the SFA dishing out exRFC’s trophies primarily to Celtic and Aberdeen (if the projections I’ve seen on here are accurate)?
The WATP would implode. RM and FF would disappear in a shower of molten Buckfast. 🙂
I don’t think the SFA in its current form would even consider it.
Stripping titles should be a start but under no circumstances should this be negotiated down to suit sevco or anyone else and an asterisk just wont cut it,the stench of corruption that ran alongside implemented by the SFA should also be put under investigation from an outside body and not one with a handshake or funny walk
Asterisk, the Gaul of some people, honestly
Essex beancounter says:
18/07/2012 at 10:09 pm
john clarke says:
18/07/2012 at 9:07 pm
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As a matter of interest, my brother-in-law was in the Paras. ( First time I spent any time with him was when we went to see the film/documentary of the ’66 world cup, shortly after he left the army)
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JC…I remember that film…called “Goal”…marvellous stuff in its time.
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I saw that too in the cinema
The best football film I’ve ever seen was a documentary on the 1994 Italy – Brazil World Cup Final called “The Final Kick”.
The TV companies in 40 countries showing the final filmed people watching the match; fascinating stuff.
And the only football action was the final kick : Baggio skying a penalty kick & giving the Cup to Brazil
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814101/reviews
The titles are tainted ,the competition was tainted ,its about more than just a 3-0 reversal
what about players of other clubs who were injured ,sent off etc against Rfc* this could have had a huge effect on the outcome especially if they missed games against the club who finished 2nd . The damage done is irreperable and a simplistic fix of 3-0 may not reflect the true position
or the assumed outcome. Those competitions have been ruined for all ,just strike them from the record book then throw the book at the club who caused it and lets move on
All of the tainted titles and cups are easy to rescind.
Let’s settle for that.
I repeat ALL of them.
Apologies if you have been over this and closed it out and I have posted about it before … but can I find my original post ,,, can I wheect. If someone wants to point me at the appropriate blog commentary for self study then I am happy to do just that 😎
So I was reading the STV FAQ (18/07/12) which says “by assuming the membership of the old Rangers company, newco Rangers would be accepting a continuation of the existing club.”
* By that logic, without membership we do not have a recognised club with Sevco yet (as no formal membership provided).
* By that logic, history is tied to membership (which rightly or wrongly, was where my previous post ended up at)
But RFC fans insist the Club continues as it was bought by Sevco … and I don’t get it. Well I kind of get it, but I’ve struggled with what is it that defines a Club. I get that Sevco bought assets and I get that SFA etc are still talking as if history is still available for continuation. But I understand how the assets themselves don’t mean anything if you don’t do anything with them, i.e. actually use them as a business, so I err towards the business being the key component of history entitlement. But in this article its the SFA membership that seems to be the key asset that clinches continuity of history.
Does that make any sense!? And no comments of “they’re dead … dead, dead, dead!” variety pls… 😎 I just need a pointer where the formal answer lies. Ideally it should be an SFA or UEFA or FIFA who should be telling us that the next title to be won by RFC will be their 1st or their umpteenth.
I am also wondering now if Celtic ever went to the EPL (and would want to do so with history intact) what would this mean in that [unlikely] scenario?
if found guilty the titles and cups should be removed from old rangers 1872 but that has nothing to do with new rangers 2012 who have zero trophies.
Buckfast is a very twee drink when based in the Abbey that produces and sells it. It is only when it crosses the border and enters the central belt does it take on malignant inferences. A proper alky goes for the white cider, Buckfast costs more than a bottle of wine from the supermarket.
Does that mean Buckfast is more of a status symbol than a means to be getting drunk.
Who knows.
Getting back on track, there is a parallel universe thing going on here- There are those who are coming to the conclusion that Sevco might not come to anything, the whole thing is kaput. How real does that scenario sound now compared to a few months ago.
Then, we have the people who believe Rangers still exist.
Rangers as culture is meeting Rangers as economics.
There are a lot of people whose culture is money and the very idea of a football club coming before them and their money is not going to happen.
Murray, when it comes down to it, can be seen as a psychopath, a vampire in older terms.
He has spawned legions who believe they are entitled to the blood of people who are unlike them.
Henry Clarson says:
18/07/2012 at 9:58 pm
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THIS!
very eloquently put Henry.
captain haddock says:
18/07/2012 at 10:02 pm
Is this the first star wars reference? I remember all the fun when fish references were in vogue here.
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punish or do not punish. There is no try………
Leaving asise the thorny question of what happens to the titles etc to be stripped from Oldco, the investigation findings must put in the spotlight those who knew and facilitated the cheating and corruption perpetrated on Scottish football for over a decade.
Rangers could not have got away with this without the help of officials at the highest level in the game. They must be flushed out and subject to criminal charges where appropriate.
I’ve always found it impossible to believe that EBT payments would not have been discussed openly between RFC and CFC players socially or during international duties. Those not paying tax would not have been able to resist letting their CFC counterparts know that their £25k per week was Grosso and Netto.
If the players knew then the administrators knew, it’s inconceivable otherwise.
Perhaps someone did and either was forced out or their career crashed to a halt, not unlike a couple of former Grade 1 refs O’Hare and O’Donnell after compaints from RFC.
Where money is involved there will always be corruption especially where the parties involved know that wrongdoings are being committed and a cover up is required.
Over the years we have had Farrygate, McCurrygate, Dallasgate and McDonaldgate.
I can’t help think that this is the tip of the iceberg. However now there is an opportunity to clean out the nest of vipers that have slowly being running Scottish football into the ground.
I actually still have not given up on Regan being the man to do the job.
blu on 18/07/2012 at 2:48 pm
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Fara says:
18/07/2012 at 2:35 pm
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Apologies if the tone of this post is intemperate but that’s just lame. Sauzee presents a reasoned view that I’m sure many people will disagree with but the response given is almost worthy of a “We Are The People Now” label. I thought we were moving on from that?
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Im sorry but I can’t disagree more with you. I have never been part of the we are people movement therefore unable to move on from it. If however you are suggesting that by standing up againnst the wrongs done by that ethos i am attempting to replace it with a similar self righteous thought process you could not be further from the truth.
My previous posts on this site have harked for a return of competitive football in Scotland played on a level playing field. In fact I make reference back to the days of Dundee utd and Aberdeen glory days as being amongst my best memories.
I’m not sure of your motives for posting the above but it is unfounded in its entirety.
NumbNuts @ 10:48 pm
It is nonsense to suggest that simply because someone buys the physical assets, then by extension the club continues to exist
The club cannot live outside the company, and when the company goes the club also goes
Unless it is a properly constituted subsidiary, capable of being sold in its own right, then the company and the club are one and the same
Do the Sevco supporters really believe, that had Tesco bought the same physical assets as Green, the club would continue to exist ?
I would like to hear their answer to that question
NumbNuts says:
18/07/2012 at 10:48 pm
If you hot Ctrl F and enter Auldheid in the small find window (on IE) then go back quite a few pages you might see how the discussion has developed.
@ 5Stars
To badly follow the pun, surely Getafix is the man that the SFA and SPL need.
I’ll get my cloak…