Rumours


“There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true.”  
Winston Churchill

Rarely has the rumour mill surrounding our national game been churning at this speed for this long. In the information gap created by a lack of real news about the Big Tax Case and the daily dollops of PR exaggerations about Rangers’ next saviour being smeared across the print media, something has to feed the insatiable demand for informationScottish football, especially in its Glaswegian form, has long been a fertile breeding ground for rumours.  There has always been a sense that fans were not getting the whole story through the mainstream press and the dramatic events of the last year have done nothing to slow the production of the finely milled football myth.

One legend that keeps coming back around on radio call in shows is the one that says HMRC has recently acquired some kind of legal power to apply the unpaid tax bills of liquidated firms to their “phoenix” successor companies. This is just not true.  (If the people claiming it to be true could also please stop citing this blog a source I would be eternally grateful! :-)) What is true is that HMRC now has the ability to demand a deposit from high-risk companies where it is believed that there is a high risk of non-remittance of withheld PAYE and national insurance. That is a wildly different proposition from actually being able to force a new legal entity to pay the tax bills of an old company- and if a newco-Rangers board does not contain Craig Whyte there is no reason to think that a newco-Rangers would be considered high risk.

Another rumour getting a lot of air play yesterday was that Rangers might go into liquidation this week. In the bizarre world of Rangers at the moment it would be a fool who dismisses any rumour out of hand, but I must confess to thinking that this is highly unlikely. (For the avoidance of doubt, I have no behind the scenes information on what is being said in the private conversations of the joint administrators). It would be a major embarrassment for Duff & Phelps if they were unable to keep Rangers FC trading until the end of the season. With all of the legal powers to cut costs available to them, this should, and would, have been priority number one. As pointed out by the excellent @tonymckelvie on Twitter, there is almost £2m available (11% of the total) from the SPL cash pot for the team that finishes 2nd in the league. (Another 4% is given to each team in the league just for participating. I am assuming that this is distributed earlier in the season). Given the size of offers being reported for Rangers, an extra £2m for the creditors is not to be discounted lightly. So, I am sceptical. If Rangers were to collapse entirely before the season ended, it would be a disaster on such a scale that it would presumably cause even SPL chief Neil Doncaster to roll up the red carpet that is currently waiting to welcome  a newco-Rangers back into the fold without questioning.

Rumours develop where our demand for the information we want to hear exceeds the supply. Even if I get 20 extra tweets a day asking “when will we know the tax case result?”,  I will still not know. It could be today. It will likely be within the next month. However, in theory, we could be waiting for months. Rumours of a 90-day deadline for a First Tier Tribunal (Tax) to publish its findings were simply not true.

Until the crisis affecting Rangers (and the Scottish game more generally) finds some form of resolution and the situation stabilises, we can expect every casual remark and poorly chosen word to spark a frenzy of analysis and fresh innuendo. As tiring as it has been, I see no let up in the drama in the coming weeks. I do hope that I am wrong. One way or another, I just want this story to come to a conclusion.

About rangerstaxcase
I have information on Rangers' tax case, and I will use this blog to provide the details of what Rangers FC have done, why it was illegal, and what the implications for what was (updated) one of the largest football clubs in Britain.

2,200 Responses to Rumours

  1. Para Handy says:

    Chris says:
    04/05/2012 at 11:47 am

    Not sure what you are saying in regards to my post here, Chris, however, based on your paragraph below, there is a flaw in your thoughts because you cannot, under the current SFA/UEFA, rules transfer a license between a Club in administration to a new entity without a CVA and if a Club is liquidated and replaced by a Newco, if it wishes to compete as the old Club it must pay off all football related debts and is subject to the same sanctions as the old club.

    I don’t disagree that a football Club can exist without the SFA/SFL/SPL but if any Newco wants to play in any senior, professional league in Europe it requires an SFA license which is non-transferable under the current AND Miller’s planned circumstances.

    “If the football club transfers its membership of a body such as the SPL of the SFA, it remains the same Rangers Football Club, formed 182/1873, incorporated 1899 no matter the assets it continues to hold (or lack thereof). The club is now formed of lots and lots of shares, distributed far and wide but each and every one a small part of Rangers Football Club.”

    If RFC can continue to trade it can play in SFA sanctioned competition, the Newco, under current rules cannot comply with any of the SFA, SPL or SFL rules so cannot.*

    * Obviously, unless those rules are changed or ignored.

  2. lastonetoleaveturnoutthelights says:

    I see AT is leaving Glasgow with the cheers and good will of the Rangers faithful ringing in his ears.

    http://twitter.com/#!/alextomo

    It is a shameful reaction to what is simply objective journalism. He is certainly presenting conclusions that are critical of all involved in RFC’s mess but that criticism arises from an investigation of the facts and questioning of those involved i.e. through journalistic skill and endeavour. Obviously that makes him a prejudiced object of hatred as far as the faithful are concerned. In many ways though they are genuinely ignorant observers and their views arise from the unchallenging rubbish they are fed by Scottish press and broadcast media. Thety are to be pitied as much as they are to be despised.

    Once again the disservice done to us by our own media is apparent. It’s not harmless amateurism that describes our press’s activities: it is the maintenance of an ignorant, under informed, prejudiced and aggresively inclined under class.

    We have the press we deserve if we continue to consume this rubbish but we absolutely do not have the society, democracy or national standing we deserve if we allow it to continue.

  3. rantinrobin says:

    BRT&H,that is a grand and lovely post on CQN

  4. scapa says:

    Ah well Jim Traynor must be squirming this morning, and the DR in its death agonies, the man with the wee white bricks is touting the DR as the saviour of RFC(IA) from the clutches of Wild Bill

    You couldn’t make it up, actually they do all the time!

  5. Arabest says:

    Timalloy, Wullie etc, My remark was meant to be a light hearted swipe at the gushing self serving, OTT praise being heaped on the ‘Celtic family’. No more, no less. But any one who dares to suggest the foutains of tat that flow from professional football is in anyway connected to child labour is a ‘troll’. (whatever that is?) Come to think of it if anyone suggests Glasgow Celtic are anything other than the font of all probity and virtue is of course a ‘troll’. Puncturing the self righteous nonsense that spews from elements of the Celtic support is a habit I have….because there is so much of it on here.

    http://www.labourbehindthelabel.org/join/item/809-football-sticthers-fifa2010

    apoplogies for any offense caused and for veering off topic.

  6. Bhoywonder says:

    Lord Hodge Starred Motion

    1 hour….Pet: Rangers Football Club Plc for an Administration Order….Biggart Baillie L.L.P.

    Anyone know when this is due to begin??

  7. Johnjo says:

    Phil D says:
    04/05/2012 at 12:46 pm

    eh? – so “current market value” is around £11m less D&P’s fees, I can’t follow that I’m afraid.

    Phil, Market value is what someone in the market is prepared to pay for something. In this case £11.5m.

    Everybody knew about the sale and this was the highest bid on the table.

    D&P can even argue that they extended the deadline to give all interested parties ample opportunity to but forward their best offer.

    What is your definition of market value?

  8. garry88 says:

    Arabest says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:05 pm ……………

    You remind me of many former posters on here , who once they were found out changed their pseudonym just like deed poll without the costs or inference from others ….

    adam , sam , many many more ……

  9. tigertim says:

    scapa says:
    04/05/2012 at 12:51 pm

    “Mike Farrell‏@mikefstv

    @DavidHillier I’ve just gone through all SEC filings for Bill Miller from Miller Ind dating back to Oct. I count sale shares of $4.018m.
    ===========================================
    Bill Miller has been on the scene for over a month now, I would have thought any journalist worth their salt would have a full dossier on him before yesterdays announcement, including any dirt.
    I would presume the same could be said for Brian Kennedy, Paul Murray, Parks o’ Hamilton and anybody else who puts their name in the frame.
    Why not print what they have on each of these warts and all, let the bears know what they are getting.

  10. Nixon Whytewashing says:

    RFC are the Marion Jones of Scottish sport competeing unfairly for money and prizes whilst knowingly using illegal (financial) steroids and with utter disdain for the rules others had to follow.

    There is now no Marion Jones in the Athletic Record Books; she cheated and was punished.

    RFC may indeed escape “financial retribution” for robbing the taxpayer. fellow clubs and suppliers of services by using corporate laws that were designed to promote enterprise and risk taking!

    But RFC “tainted prizes history” under SDM must be wiped at the very least for any sporting justice in Scottish sport; the “wee red book” publisher.could just list “title/cup won by fraud” in every entry for the SDM tenure.

  11. Arabest says:

    I see your logic Garry88….he who is not with us must be against us! Right from the Sandy Jardine school of rational thinking, complete with covert name changes. I notice you competely ignore the issue and chose to point fingers instead.

  12. Hugh McEwan says:

    Are Tesco the new St Mirren, they bought the ground after all.

    Ah but St Mirren still exist you cry.

    So would Rangers when Bill Miller buys the assets.

    This is what people are forgetting Rangers still exists after it sells the stadium and training ground. That club still has it’s history, so the new one can’t.

    Then when it is wound up it dies, and takes the history with it.

    But, I hear you say, there will be a CVA and the history will be merged back in. Let’s believe that one when we see it.

  13. The Iceman says:

    Arabest has been great on here – was a wee joke!!
    Celtic fans get awfy precious – and I say that as one!

  14. scapa says:

    As a celtic fan, I find the people in the celtic familly who claim all the moral highground more than a bit nauseating. We have our share of loons, but, Celtic FC unlike RFC has made and continues to make genuine efforts to weed the loons out.

  15. Phil D says:

    Johnjo says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:08 pm

    I see where you’re coming from JJ – but my argument would be that the sale in its currently proposed form would be rather akin to offering a badly damaged expensive car for sale as a refurbishment project, when a greater return would be achieved by scrapping it and selling the parts

  16. garry88 says:

    Arabest says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:16 pm ………….

    Leave poor sandy out of this , myOmy ( you see easy to laugh )

    im NOT gona fling mud about the place you always have Neg posts IMO ,

    so this is the reason i said what i have , i also do NOT care for the link you put up i am informed enough about world events so you can stick yer satire mate ….

  17. Arabest says:

    i also do NOT care for the link you put up i am informed enough about world events so you can stick yer satire mate ….
    —————————————————————————————————————–

    With such attributes Garry88 you will make a fine sports journalist one day. 😉

    Thanks Iceman, Likewise I enjoy your contibutions.

  18. WOTTPI says:

    Johnjo says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:08 pm

    The problem is that what the Adminstrators were offering for sale was the football club as a ‘going concern’.

    If it had been liquidated and fire sale held that was open to the wider market then who knows what monies would have be realised for Ibrox and Murray Park.

    I know there may be issues relating to planning but you could have a look at other similar sites to see what they were sold for.

    At present the known creditors are owed in the region of £55m.

    BM is offering £11.2 which will be down somewhere towards £8m by the time Duff & Duffer get paid.

  19. garry88 says:

    Arabest says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:27 pm ……………….

    like i said im not gona keep flinging mud , tis a fine blog its also normal for peeps to disagree @ times without the need for mockery & such likes & if it was mere humour you originally intended
    then excuse me if i wasn’t laughing …..

  20. Nowoldandgrumpy says:

    Johnjo on 04/05/2012 at 1:08 pm said:

    Was it the largest bid, did Corsica not mention that a higher offer was made but ignored by D&D

  21. WOTTPI says:

    garry88 says:
    &
    Arabest says

    I like a bit of banter as much as the next man but lets be careful and not get distracted from who the baddie is in this panto otherwise we could loose our focus.

    Time for people to band together.

  22. Gwared says:

    Jabba said,
    “And as a sideshow there’s been the pious pap of cyberspace’s sanctimonious nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn’t exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.”

    No idea who he is reffering to? he seems hurt, the big fat jabba petted lip is oot. Personally I only come on here to read from our more educated brethern ahem. James you would do well just to acknowledge us with a bit of graciousness, when I want laughs and lies I read your twaddle, notice no comments allowed, hahaha.

  23. tony stroud says:

    Perhaps one of the Celtic fans posting on here could answer a question that has been bugging me ? But I stress I am an English football fan with no axe to grind simply following events with total incredulity.

    The SPL are supposed to protect the interests of their clubs, and the individuals forming that body are representatives of its members. Surely with the current weakness of Rangers , Celtic must be the loudest voice at the SPL ? And as such would have the greatest influence ?

    Yet we are in a situation where Neil Doncaster is being criticised by the majority of the football community for actions seeming to support the survival of Rangers in the SPL even if it flies in the face of any concept of justice and fairness.

    So what is the position of Celtic in all this ? I have seen very little officially emanating from them in the media although there are plenty of Celtic supporters joining the argument against the current proposals.

    So what does go on at the SPL meetings ? Are Celtics representatives actually arguing for or against sanctions against Rangers ? Is the natural desire to see justice by tossing Rangers out of the SPL outweighed by a financial need to preserve the duopoly with its voting system and distribution of money ?

    Perhaps my naive hopes that Rangers will be liquidated and that this may result in a restructured league system are totally unrealistic. But I would find it very strange and a bit sad that it may be the tacit support of their greatest foe that prevents the creation of a level playing field for all clubs and ultimately a stronger and sustainable system.

    What outcome are Celtic supporters actually looking for ?

  24. Hoopy 7 says:

    Notice that St. Mirren had removed McGeough as a Director. That what he gets for being duplicitous.
    The only way for some kind of Rangers to play at the Penny Arcade is to buy another team and move it.
    Liquidation the day after season finishes.
    D&P should be investigated. It was only ever a fee raising exercise.

  25. Hugh McEwan says:

    tony stroud says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:38 pm

    This is no more Celtic’s business than it is the business of every other football club in Scotland. We are not the people, we are one of many clubs who have been cheated by Rangers.

  26. scapa says:

    tony stroud says:

    04/05/2012 at 1:38 pm

    Tony, can’t speak for anyone else, but, all I want is for the rules to be apllied without fear or favour. The penalty imposed by the SFA for the charges relatring to Whyte, were i thought fair and proper.

    If RFC is found to have improperly registered players, then if a wee club gets kicked out a competition for not dating a registration form, I’m afraid titles and cups have to go.

    IF RFC(IA) is liquidated, then any new footballing company has to re-apply for entry into the league

  27. Arabest says:

    WOTTPI – amen to that 😉

  28. Hoopy 7 says:

    In Ireland the Government set up NAMA, the toxic debt was moved there. D&P’s scheme with Miller is a poor imitation.

    Miller is not a serious player. He doesn’t have a passport, would you buy something you haven’t seen?

    No chance, no money, no Rangers.

  29. garry88 says:

    WOTTPI says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:36 pm …………

    Yip im down with that 😉

  30. tigertim says:

    Hugh McEwan says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:41 pm

    tony stroud says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:38 pm

    This is no more Celtic’s business than it is the business of every other football club in Scotland. We are not the people, we are one of many clubs who have been cheated by Rangers.
    ===========================================================
    Well said Hugh and I notice you did not limit this to SPL clubs but all clubs from all divisions.

  31. paulmac says:

    Fair Question Tony…

    All we have asked for from day 1…is the truth and if the truth means the punishment is x..y..z..then so be it..

    It would be similar if in the EPL…they were considering changing the rules of the EPL so as Arsenal could remain in the EPL and even excempt from relegation…as it had been discovered they have been found to be dishonest to a level that has given them a fianancial advantage over all other EPL clubs where it has led to insolvency…and claimimg they are a special case..

    My question is…would Engalnd and its media accept this?

  32. The Iceman says:

    Celtic as a club are probably best saying nothing – It is a powderkeg they are dealing with. Nothing would suit MSM more than dragging Celtic into this – DR shamefully tried whipping this up when Lennon made a totally neutral comment about the rules being applicable evenly to all clubs – no-one could argue with that but the ehadline screamed about Lennon hammering rangers. With this garbage around – silence is the only public option.

    This does lead me to get very frustrated and write uncharitably about PL et al on occasions.but today i have my less hot head on! This is not a blank cheque for CFC and I hope that when the time comes they will stand for decency and justice. In the absence of comment from them jury must be out on that. No hard evidence either way.

  33. Trimm Trab says:

    Hugh McEwan says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:41 pm
    —————————

    Correct and I notice all the many clubs that are happy to shout about anything from ref bias to player poaching are strangely silent on the single biggest issue to hit Scottish football probably ever – strange?

  34. The Iceman says:

    Answer paul is No – England has a whole raft of establishment clubs and enough diversity that one could be let go without the hysteria we see here.

  35. Johnjo says:

    WOTTPI says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:30 pm

    At this point in time who knows if D&P could have raised more for the creditors by doing things differently.

    It all comes down to opinion.

    All I am saying is that D&P can argue that what they are doing is in the best interest of the creditors and their argument would more than likely be strong enough to see off any future claims from disgruntled creditors.

    However, if Millers bid fails to go through, then we may well find out how much alternative strategies will raise.

  36. Para Handy says:

    The Iceman says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:51 pm
    ==================
    Not just CFC but all Clubs, sponsors and politicians (with some notorious exceptions) will avoid anything other than platitudes and non-committal comments to avoid the toxicity of response from some of our less learned brethren.

    It is surely the footballing authorities job to look into these matters and the media’s job to conduct investigations into all aspects of the matter and provide reasoned and balanced reporting on them.

    In my next post I will be providing a DIY guide to nailing jelly to the ceiling.

    Chust sublime…

  37. Johnjo says:

    Nowoldandgrumpy says:

    Was it the largest bid, did Corsica not mention that a higher offer was made but ignored by D&D

    Old and Grumpy, As far as I can see there were only two bids on the table and the other one was not only far lower but it had unacceptable conditions attached.

    But please correct me if I am wrong.

  38. Thornlyboy says:

    We all go on about the MSM (rightly, in my view). I never listened to most of the phone-ins until I started reading this blog (oddly enough). I don’t buy newspapers, but I do read some of the ‘better’ ones over a coffee in the cafe (see metropolitan, see me…). I have tried to read the DR, but my eyes and my brain had too much of an argument, so I had to stop.

    I think that Chico is a buffoon, Jabba is a pompous oaf, Spiersy is conflicted and Alex is the only one with any integrity (apart from my old schoolmate, GG). If they want a NewCo to be admitted to the SPL – fine; wrong, but fine. It cannot be penalty-free. ND seems like a complete opportunistic chancer and SR looks continually caught in the car headlights; they are men of straw.

    Do I want RFC to ‘die’? – well, yes I do. But if it survives, it should be treated as a pariah, be tax compliant and work its way up from Div3 to earn a place in the top flight (such as it is). Anything else is a betrayal.

  39. Surely “moving the assets beyond the reach of creditors” (google that phrase) is illegal, and fraudulent? The only security the creditors have are the assets, which includes all fixtures & fittings, property (tangible & intellectual), beneficial contracts and membership of the SPL.

    The separation of assets and liabilities is as clear a case of fraud as I’ve seen. So moving those assets to another company, with no debts, can only occur with the permission of the creditors of the existing company. Let’s just see if HMRS, Ticketus, the SPL etc etc will agree to it.

  40. garry88 says:

    alex thomson ‏ @alextomo
    SPL confirmed again late y’day 1. registration probe continues unchanged 2. No change to proposed penalty pts vote.

  41. rantinrobin says:

    Gwared says:

    04/05/2012 at 1:37 pm
    ——————————————————————————–
    ‘the pious pap” oh dear Mr T has been reading the blog and has been a trifle upset by his dismissal here as being ,in the opinion of many,not very good at reporting in an objective manner.Methinks he doth protest too much.

    They are only words Mr Traynor and as you call us nonentities ,I can only apologise to such a large entity as yourself.

  42. scapa says:

    Stephen O’Donnell (@stephenodonn) says:

    04/05/2012 at 2:02 pm

    Stephen, they are not moving the assetts, they are selling them. Whatever the morality, the action itself is legal and comon practice.

    D&P may look and act like Laurel and Hardy, but, every Insolvency type I’ve spoken to insists that they have not yet broken any rules, so their removal ain’t going to happen.

  43. WOTTPI says:

    Johnjo says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:53 pm

    I agree that Duff & Duffer’s defense is that they put the club on the market and thats what they got back.
    It is hard to argue against what the figures say.

    Wether that strategy is in the best interest of the creditors is what is up for discussion. As you say we could yet still find out what the assests are worth on the open market.

    (Just on the news Chelsea are hoping to buy Battesea Power Station and surrounding land for a new stadium, listed building and all that. Bet is going for more than £11.2m)

    Anyway as I said weeks and weeks ago, if this great Scottish Sporting Institution with all its Tradition History and massive Fan Base can only attract £11.2m from a foreign tow truck king would we not be better just to put it out of its misery.

  44. garry88 says:

    alex thomson ‏ @alextomo
    Taxman’s position unchanged: they’ve not been involved, or voted, or been part of Miller plan. When contacted they’ll consider the deal

  45. rab says:

    Why didnt woolworths transfer all the good stuff ( shops, staff, chocolate peanuts ) into a newco and leave all the bad stuff ( debts, chocolate raisins ) with the oldco and start again.

    I also dont think the irn bru bid will work, rangers are more accustomed to the more exotic flavours of pineapple crush and dandelion & burdock that frequented the alpine van. Im afraid the locally produced irn bru was only bought to weaken the alpine mans competitors and didnt actually see the light of day down ibrox way.

  46. The Iceman says:

    if Corsica’s suggested bid and bidder is real ( I have no idea whether or not it is – there is no objective evidence but given the conduct of D andP rejecting such a bid and denying its existence seems credible – bizarrely enough) then surely serious questions about the non appearance or mention of such a bid will be demmanded when rangers go phut!

    I think there would be some rather grumpy bears if they found out that such a bid – however alien to their “traditions” was simply dismissed out of turn

  47. garry88 says:

    alex thomson ‏ @alextomo
    Note – in their press-diktat y’day D&P never mentioned by name CW, Ticketus or HMRC – like trying to sell you see the vehicle.

  48. tigertim says:

    alex thomson ‏ @alextomo
    SPL confirmed again late y’day
    1. registration probe continues unchanged
    2. No change to proposed penalty pts vote.
    =====================================
    This would confirm what I had said yesterday, The SPL investigation is into player registration since CW became the owner, nothing to do with EBT’s. It covers 2 transfer windows and how the SPL could not have this completed is ludicrous. They have already completed this and are now holding off with the penalty.

  49. paulmac says:

    Stephen O’Donnell (@stephenodonn) says:
    04/05/2012 at 2:02 pm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    For me the most telling word that D&D used yesterday was..SHELTERED.

    By selling the assets to Bill Miller they would be SHELTERED (PROTECTED)..and here was me thinking they would be sold…when in fact it would seem the objective is to place them in protection…or in other words…placed out of reach to creditors…to my mind this would surely mean creditors (excuding the floating charge holder) get zilch..nada..zero..nout..including HMRC..

    When they can be so blatent about how they are gonna shaft you…why would HMRC say..tell you what we accept a CVA what you got?…FEK ALL..not a problem where do I sign!

  50. tigertim says:

    The Iceman says:
    04/05/2012 at 1:53 pm
    0 0 i
    Rate This
    Answer paul is No – England has a whole raft of establishment clubs and enough diversity that one could be let go without the hysteria we see here.
    ==============================================
    I wonder if this is true, certainly the likes of Wigan, Bolton QPR, Blackburn, Stoke, Everton,would be allowed to go I’m not so sure about some of the “establishment” clubs.
    There would be an outcry to save Tottenham, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, not so sure on Liverpool, Newcastle or Man City.