Bear With Me


Once again I have to apologise for being a terrible host. The number of unmoderated replies piles up, readers become frustrated at the lack of updates, and I have started receiving complaints saying that I am letting people down with teasing with promises of exposés that are always in the future.

On the moderation issue, I put my hands up. Between real life and researching materials for this project, it leaves me with little time to participate in discussions let alone referee them. All I can say just now is ‘sorry’, but there is not a lot I can do in the short-term. If someone wants to start a messageboard to allow the various discussion topics from here to be handled by a larger number of people, we can talk about how we could manage this technically. If seriously interested, let me know. However, I can see this presenting difficulties and distracting from the blog itself- which (no surprise) is the bit I like most, but this project has grown to become something in which many people have an emotional claim. So I am open to ideas from anyone who thinks they can solve the concurrent problems of my penchant for privacy, the need to have several people act as moderators, and maintaining a sense of togetherness for both blog and replies.

On the charge that I am not delivering on the teasers that I throw out, I have always said that most information will be withheld until after the FTT findings are published. Nothing has changed. Do not expect a deluge of information in FTT+1. There is value in timing the release of information to apply pressure on those who would rather that this story not be told.

Be assured that there is a lot of information to come out. Some will come out in the mainstream press, some on here and other blogs, and other details will be best explained in a book. Just be patient. Pulling a lot of disparate threads apart to understand what has happened at Rangers over the last decade has been exhausting. The hit-and-run nature of Twitter has made it easier to try to communicate while doing several different things at once- and I did throw out some new information about the extent of Rangers’ use of the EBT scheme- How many players in the Rangers squad (1st team and subs) that won the SPL title on the last day of the season on 22 May 2005 had an EBT?  That is correct- every single one of them.

Most commentators on this saga believe that Rangers will be found to have acted illegally and were breaking UK tax law in their implementation of the EBT scheme. If / when this is formalised, the SFA & SPL face an issue which cannot be parried away without causing permanent damage to the Scottish game. The widespread use of the EBTs at Ibrox means that there cannot be any serious debate that Rangers fielded players who they could not afford during this period. Using illegal means to fund their playing staff was cheating. It is that simple. If by some miracle a CVA happens and Rangers survive intact or if the SFA/SPL allow Rangers’ membership share to be transferred to a newco, then punishment must be meted out. That punishment must be proportional to the fact that other clubs suffered huge financial losses as a result of that cheating. The punishment must also include consideration of the damage to the reputation of the Scottish game as well. Anything less and there will be little point in watching Scottish football. Anything less and it will be clear that it is a rigged game with a tilted table and loaded dice- all for the benefit of just a single club.

About rangerstaxcase
I have information on Rangers' tax case, and I will use this blog to provide the details of what Rangers FC have done, why it was illegal, and what the implications for what was (updated) one of the largest football clubs in Britain.

4,279 Responses to Bear With Me

  1. Hugh McEwan says:

    wullie says:
    29/04/2012 at 7:00 pm

    =====================

    Likewise.

  2. Harry Tuttle says:
    29/04/2012 at 6:48 pm

    Fine by me. The more people read it, the merrier.

  3. ziggydoc says:

    rangerstaxcase says:
    29/04/2012 at 5:56 pm
     91 5 Rate This
    Very bored with some topics being discussed (in among the usual high quality stuff).

    Your happiness / unhappiness with Rangers’ fans Sunday hymnal is not a topic we need to discuss on here. Plenty of other places to dwell on that.

    So I have deleted some posts and updated the bad words blacklist. If you are wondering if your post will be a waste of time because it might get caught in the blacklist? Don’t write it.
    I am not interested in hosting a standard Celtic messageboard or providing yet another outlet for issues that have been debated to death everywhere else.

    Sorry to be a killjoy, but we have discussed these points many many many times before.

    Well said RTC. I’m now addicted to this site. The standard and information provided by some of the bloggers, such as Barcabhoy,is staggering. I feel as if i’ve been doing an OU course over the past months and would love to see this site continue beyond the demise of the current situation, with some new thread. Keep up the good work.

  4. lastontoleaveturnthelightsout says:

    So that’s it for 2011/12; the football is over.

    This blog is intended to deal with two subjects. The first (and primarily) is the financial future of RFC as its liabilities emerge into daylight. Secondly a complicit and feeble media which failed to apply objective let alone investigative journalism to the club and its recent and current owners.

    We know it’s all over for RFC(ia). The pathetic way in which potential saviours are paraded before us and the appaling lack of competence and impartiality that is displayed by the Scottish press pack is deepy insulting.

    So where are we going to be in 2012/13. I know what I’m hoping for.

    RFC – all their misdemeanours adjudicated on without fear or favour. If they lose the BTC then they’re bust. If the EBT’s breached SFA and Uefa contractual requirements then they should receive all of the appropriate sanctions. That means liquidation to return the best deal for the creditors and a fresh start in the SFL after applying through the same channels as any other aspiring club.

    The press? How can the newspaper and broadcast media continue to fill their pages and airtime with the utterances of Traynor, Keevins, Forsyth, Hateley, Young and all the others when we have seen them for the complicit, partial, substandard hacks that they really are. I sincerely hope they are offloaded in the close season and we get a chance to have the sport reported to us in a way that does it justice. Gibbons, McIlvanney and other notable examples have to arise from somewhere – the mob we have at the moment will never be tomorrow’s stars.

    So let’s start again.

    RFC(ia) face up to the inevitble outcome given their debts and assets and their contractual misdemeanours.
    Current Scottish media pack allowed to practice their trade in the blogosphere.

  5. Danish Pastry says:

    rangerstaxcase says:
    29/04/2012 at 5:56 pm

    I am not interested in hosting a standard Celtic messageboard or providing yet another outlet for issues that have been debated to death everywhere else.
    ——————————————————————

    Bravo.

    Now, please, back to more updates on the mystery which would have taxed the little grey cells of Hercule Poirot 🙂

    PS Well said higher hopes …

  6. troubledfan says:

    so what are we supposed to do in lieu of further revelations from the people in the know ?
    the piffle n goss doesnt quell “my” need for infofix… but it takes the edge off the cravings.

  7. ParmaHamster says:

    lastontoleaveturnthelightsout says:

    29/04/2012 at 8:01 pm

    RFC(ia) face up to the inevitble outcome given their debts and assets and their contractual misdemeanours.
    Current Scottish media pack allowed to practice their trade in the blogosphere.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Well if it’s good enough for Leggat…..:)

  8. Yarmy says:

    How can the newspaper and broadcast media continue to fill their pages and airtime with the utterances of Traynor, Keevins, Forsyth, Hateley, Young and all the others when we have seen them for the complicit, partial, substandard hacks that they really are.

    I’d bet you 100 pennies in the pound that Mark Hateley doesn’t write his own column, not that I’ve ever read it. When Harry Kewell sued Gary Lineker over the contents of an article the latter had penned it was revealed in court that not only had Lineker not written the column, he hadn’t even read it.

  9. gaz says:

    Danish Pastry says:
    29/04/2012 at 8:03 pm

    I hope we weren’t getting too spiritual earlier DP!! 😉

    I’m hoping RTC drops a wee bombshell in the next few hours to end my pontificating about our Brave New World!

  10. steve-b says:

    on topic : as the players wages go back to full pay at the end of May (i think)
    question is can the survive as is till then ?

    at what point must they (D &P) legally throw the towel in , or are they allowed
    to empty the bank until its completely empty?

  11. campsiejoe says:

    How likely is it, that this whole administration process will be the subject of a DTI enquiry ?
    From the outside looking in, it does not appear to have been handled very well

  12. Not The Huddle Malcontent says:

    tims – go hear to gloat – http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/forum/15914/

  13. steve-b says:

    campsiejoe says:
    29/04/2012 at 8:49 pm
    2 0 Rate This
    How likely is it, that this whole administration process will be the subject of a DTI enquiry ?
    From the outside looking in, it does not appear to have been handled very well
    ________________________________________

    think you would need one of the creditors to officially complain

  14. TPM says:

    If the only argument for allowing a new football club (followed by the fans of Rangers) direct access into the top league is fans revenue, and they really don’t do “walking away”, surely the revenue will still be there? It just won’t be going to the SPL clubs.

    Everyone with any knowledge or experience in the game continue to tell us we need to build the game from grass roots, promote and support smaller clubs to produce and nurture the younger Scottish or home grown players etc.. If that is the case, how can Rangers working through the tiers be seen as negative?

    Let’s be blunt here, the only people who really gain from allowing a newco direct entry to the SPL would be the overpaid players of some teams competing in that league. For me it’s time to teach more than Rangers a lesson!

  15. tigertim says:

    So it looks like the vote will go ahead tomorrow.
    After Saturdays March threatening all & sundry is this a good idea?
    Why not wait till the SPL enquiry returns their findings on the ** of the ***, oh that right Mr Doncaster has neither updated anyone nor announced a date for the findings.
    Will we also receive a copy of the findings and reasons for RFC punishment and the remit of the enquiry by the SFA?
    Will the result of all votes be announced tomorrow?
    Will RFC lose some bidders because of this, or will they just announce that they have?

  16. the taxman cometh says:

    steve-b says:
    29/04/2012 at 8:43 pm
    1 0 Rate This
    on topic : as the players wages go back to full pay at the end of May (i think)
    question is can the survive as is till then ?

    at what point must they (D &P) legally throw the towel in , or are they allowed
    to empty the bank until its completely empty?

    ========

    It’s clear that their plan A was/is to get RFC(IA) to the close season, I suspect that all the bluster about the bidders (aye right) is to give them a plausible reason to present to the creditors/court to justify continuing the administration.

    Shutters should have been pulled down long ago on the big hoose.

    It’s clear that a liquidation sale is going to pull in more for the creditors, true now as it was on 14th Feb but now that creditor pot has been substantially eroded by the fees and actions of D&P

  17. Derek says:

    steve-b says:
    29/04/2012 at 9:08 pm

    campsiejoe says:
    29/04/2012 at 8:49 pm

    How likely is it, that this whole administration process will be the subject of a DTI enquiry ?
    From the outside looking in, it does not appear to have been handled very well
    ________________________________________

    think you would need one of the creditors to officially complain
    =================================
    Firstly, there hasn’t been a DTI since 2007 when it was replaced by the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform.

    Having said that, the DBERR (!) has no role to play. Any concerns about the conduct of an administration are in the end a matter for the Court.

    A creditor can apply for an order under paragraph 74(1) of Schedule B1 IA 1986 on the basis that the administrator’s conduct has unfairly harmed his interests, or that the administrator is failing to perform his duties as quickly or efficiently as reasonably practicable.

    A creditor can also apply under paragraph 75 of Schedule B1 on the basis of any misfeasance by the administrator.

    In extreme circumstances, you can apply for a court order to remove the administrator (paragraph 88, Schedule B1 and rule 2.122, 1986 Rules).

    However I do not know of any instance of any creditor successfully challenging an Administrator under these statutes. It would help of course if we had a creditors committee – but for that of course we need to know how the votes went on the interim proposals.

  18. Goosy says:

    Am I missing something?

    Currently the SPL are about to vote on a proposal that permits a parachute for Newco

    This suggests Newco will be in the SPL or at worse applying to join the 3rd Div

    What does that leave in the way of football sanctions to be applied if later on the FTT rule that tax evasion took place for over a decade? And to which entity do these sanctions get applied? Is it Oldco (who have no license) or Newco ( who have a license and claim the history of Oldco)

    By admitting Newco to the SPL or indeed to the SFL before the FTT rule then the ultimate sanction of expulsion from the league is being explicitly ruled out

    And since the SPL license qualifies a team to play in Europe

    What are UEFA going to say about that?

    I am not advocating expulsion from the league in making these comments

    What I`m saying is that the job isn`t done until all the issues are resolved

    Meaning
    No Newco application should be even considered until the BTC is resolved one way or another and this whole sorry saga can be put to bed in one fell swoop

  19. timtim says:

    29/04/2012 at 5:44 pm

    Some great shots in that montage.

    I’m not a Celtic fan, but have to admit I was waiting with a certain relish to see what banners might be displayed today. Suffice to say, the CFC supporters didn’t disappoint! The 4 horsemen banner was a serious work of art – do these supporters not have better things to do with their time 🙂

    Other higlights for me – the gravestone with Succulent Lamb on it, and the banner proclaiming “for every fiver you spend, we will borrow a tenner”.

  20. paperbhoy says:

    rangerstaxcase says:
    29/04/2012 at 5:56 pm

    Thank you RTC.

    My moniker may give away my feelings about the demise of RFC, but I’m primarily interested in reading the views of the more well informed than me on how Scottish football can not only rebuild sans ‘gers (and for there to be trust, it can only really happen without them), but rebuild a modern, fit for purpose competition in which the governance is entirely objectively administered.

    As for the MSM, I very much fear that the same old charlatans will continue to find gainful employment. Essentially they’re doing their jobs properly as tabloid journos. Morals don’t really come into the business of selling papers and, clearly, selling out your journalistic integrity for a few pieces of sliver is standard practice. Even if some are replaced, they’ll only be replaced with their own like. And can you really, realistically, see Traynor, Young etc being dismissed from their current posts?

    The problem I think we have, both in the game’s governance and in the media, is that a lot of self-serving individuals will have to fall on their own swords for the good of the game.

    Chances of that happening?

    Chances of the MSM or club chairmen/officers surrendering to popular opinion?

    Chances of RTC et al having a wide enough public airing that the outrage will definitively force the hands of the governing bodies?

    I’d love to have the confidence that any or all of the above have a decent chance of effecting change – meaningful change.

    But… something about the way the world turns tells me that while the establishment club might now be too far over the precipice to be hauled back (or are they?), the MSM establishment, the governing establishment and the self-serving club chairmen still have enough shields to hide behind.

    So exactly who is going to step up and save Scottish football from this disaster?

    I’d dearly love to be proved wrong, but I find myself depressingly inured to the status quo, simply because the change that’s required is so drastic and requires so many people and organisations to volte face that the chances of it happening are astronomically against.

  21. Garibaldi says:

    29/04/2012 at 5:49 pm

    Once the mess that RFC(IA) have got themselves into is brought to end, and who knows when that will be, it’s important that the SFA, SPL and all the member Clubs work together with a focus of never letting a ‘Murray/Whyte’ situation ever happen again within our game, examples of how a Club should be owned and run should be used as a template for the good of our game in this country, mistakes have been made the important point is we learn from them.

    ———————————————————————————————————————————-

    I couldn’t agree more. The powers that be need to sit down, with representatives from the clubs, and have a complete drains up on what happened to allow this situation to arise.

    No finger pointing, or blaming individuals or clubs for what has gone on in the past – recriminations should already have been put in place. Just a cold hard look at the sequence of events that combined to create this scenario, and consideration of what can be done to prevent it ever happening again.

  22. Tin Lizzy says:

    There are plenty of decent Rangers fans, many that are my friends, it was great to see so many Gers fans staying until the end, their mesaage boards saying about 40 odd leaving after the third goal, the banter was good, Gers fans doing the huddle – at the end of the day Celtic fans should not forget that it was the Gers board of directors from SDM to CW who stole clubfunds for their own nefarious reasons, so why penalise the fans- us Celtic fans old enough can remember how the Kelly,s, Whytes and Grants stole all our cash in the 60,s 70, and 80,s and nearly sunk our Club.I want the Gers to survive as they are integral to us Celts as we are to them. Please do not tarnish the decent Gers football fans with the 1690 mob mentality and help provide the Gers with support against the SFA, SPL andUEFA – It was not long ago that these institutions were so much anti- Celtic themselves.

  23. Auldheid says:

    29/04/2012 at 5:53 pm

    The SFA should have maintaining the integrity of our game as their prime goal. All else should be subservient to that.

    ———————————————————————————————————————————-

    Auldheid, I couldn’t agree more with the sentiments in your post (and many others before that as well). But wasn’t the setting up of the individual disciplinary panel a genuine attempt by the SFA towards achieving that aim, only for the whole process to be completely undermined by calls for the panel members to be publicly named and shamed by Sally?

    The consequence of Rangers’ response to the hearing this week would surely make anybody think long and hard about taking up a role on one of these panels.

  24. Slimshady says:

    It is clear the end will come this week to give RFC(IA) maximum time to try and salvage something for next season.

    I suspect the admins were keeping it going in case they could narrow the gap to less than 10 points and so claim the league.

    Now that cannot happen (and without the 10pt penalty, today would have been the title decider), there is nothing to keep going for and the mood on FF and RM is one of almost total resignation to the liquidiser. AMcC has replaced the arrogant bluster of last week with downbeat realism and not before time. Who knows, we may even get some sort of apology before long.

    Good – reality was needed to allow everyone to move forward. The anger will shortly move away from the authorities and the rest of Scottish football towards the real perpetrator.

    Today’s cluedo answer is – “David Murray in the last decade with the EBTs” and all eyes will shortly be on Charlotte Square.

    The atmosphere today was surreal, as if neither set of supporters could quite believe it had come to this and the words “we’ll meet again some sunny day…” had a strong resonance to them.

    If RFC reform and repent, and then regroup, they will be welcomed back into the SPL but only once they have done their time in the lower divisions. The first OF game after that will be awaited with huge enthusiasm, but nothing I suspect will ever be the same again.

    54 to 0

  25. paperbhoy says:

    Rob Noxious (@NoxRob) says:
    29/04/2012 at 10:07 pm

    Garibaldi says:

    29/04/2012 at 5:49 pm

    While I completely agree with you both, the essential fact remains that the people you are expecting to reinvigorate the game are the very people that have created this quagmire.

    There are too many people involved in the game that are an obstacle to change. And it’s proved by this fast track effort to save RFC by creating new rules on the hoof.

    Any changes in the rules should be discussed *after* this mess has been mopped up, not during the unfolding disaster. The rush to open another door for the rescue of RFC shows just how corrupted the current crop are. They’re not in it for the game, they’re in it for themselves. Unless this meeting votes out the proposals and postpones any changes until after this plays out, they’re going to be equally complicit in killing the game.

    Sorry for the cynical verdict, but what have these people ever done that warrants any level of trust that they can rescue our game?

  26. Tangerine Taysider says:

    Goosy says:
    29/04/2012 at 9:46 pm

    I’m puzzled by this too. The obvious course of action for the SPL and SFA right now is to do as little as possible as slowly as possible. Liquidation is likely after the final game of the season. Keep as much distance as you can from the wounded animal so that no blame can be attributed to you on even the flimsiest of pretexts.

    So why the vote tomorrow? Also why have the organisers of the SPL fans survey had a private meeting about the views of 16,000 odd fans who have been left none the wiser? Has Neil Doncaster become invisible? Maybe either there is a growing realisation that it doesn’t matter what happens because a Newco will not be able to get up and running in time for next season or alternatively behind the smokescreen of more meaningless deadlines feverish activity is under way to prepare for a fast tracked Newco.

  27. Interested Observer says:

    Could be a shameful day for scottish football tomorrow when the SPL clubs meet to decide what happens to liquidated clubs.

    Depending on how the clubs vote, a newco Rangers’ only sanction could be just two 10-point deductions over the next two seasons.

    That really would be quite incredible. Wonder what UEFA would say?

    Apparently The Herald’s Richard Wilson was on Off the Ball today and said the scottish newspapers have led the way covering the Rangers story.

    I waited for the punch line.

  28. selfassessor says:

    Goosy on 29/04/2012 at 9:46 pm said:

    My thoughts exactly.

    What has happened during Whyet Twerp’s reign is bad enough and deserves the kind of punishments already being meted out. So what happens if/when the FTT decision goes against them and it becomes crystal-clear that they have broken even more laws and footballing regulations?

  29. Slimshady says:

    29/04/2012 at 10:31 pm

    I think every attempt will be made to ensure RFC (IA) see out the season before it all comes to an end. Realistically, it should have happened weeks ago. The SPL did everything it could to ensure Gretna did not fold before the season was over, because it would have created logistical problems (i.e. wiping out all Gretna’s results, which would have meant adjusting all the other teams’ points totals retrospectively).

  30. Goosy says:

    Auldheid says:

    29/04/2012 at 5:53 pm

    The SFA should have maintaining the integrity of our game as their prime goal. All else should be subservient to that.

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Auldheid
    I would go a lot further than that

    The SFA should have maintaining the integrity of our game as their only goal.

    And consist of a few part time executives dealing only with controversial issues

    With all other SFA responsibilities resting with a separate body altogether

  31. Auldheid says:

    RobNoxious
    I give Regan all the credit going for the work he put into the new Disciplinary panel and I fully expect McCoist to feel the ire of the SFA at his ill judged criticism that led to the sort of thing that justifies the anonymity of the panel.
    I expect the need for this aspect to be reinforced and the self serving argument of McCoist and his media pals to be pointed out.
    The SFA will now have to go to additional lengths to protect the anonymity including draconian punishment like points deduction for clubs who expose panel members.
    If I can be partizan for a moment the biggests “victims” of the new process have been Rangers. Contrast the decisions this year involving Naismith and Aluko with last involving Bougherra and Diouf.
    No Rangers do not like the system because it is not so easy to manipulate as in the past. It is an example of how sensible changes in process can lead to fairer play and attempts to undermine it, especially by Rangers, have to be strongly resisted.

  32. adayinmay says:

    Apologies if this has been posted previously.
    Congratulations RTC! Well deserved.
    http://theorwellprize.co.uk/shortlists/filter/type-Blog%20Prize/year-2012/

    Good luck.

  33. gaz says:

    Tangerine Taysider says:
    29/04/2012 at 10:44 pm

    Exactly – I must say it has been a total letdown for everyone – and I include Rangers in this – that the SPL/SFA have fallen so deafeningly silent. The Raith chairman got it right when he acknowledged that his Director had been hung out to dry.

    I am not one for ‘lack of leadership’ criticisms but in this case it is sadly deserved.

  34. Private Land says:

    Auldheid says:

    29/04/2012 at 11:10 pm
    ________________________________

    The problem is that if they could not manipulate the system they tried to intimidate those responsible for operating it.

    Make no mistake. This was a deliberate systematic attack on the authorities, spearheaded by McCoist, and aided and abetted by (in the main, Jim Traynor). McCoist knew who the guys on the panel were, and he knew that the clubs had voted unanimously to introduce the system. But it didn’t suit his purposes, so people were deliberately put at risk.

    Traynor knew this also. Had he been critical of the anonymity at the time of the 93-0 vote (he wasn’t), there might be a case for his giving Hately that two pages-worth of bile, and the pejorative and insulting tone of the editorial.

    They all knew that recent history compels people of decency to try to avoid riling those who have a proclivity for violence – therefore they are too reckless and irresponsible to be holding down the positions they do. If they were not aware of the potential consequences of their actions, then they are too stupid to be in post.

    If the history of this saga tells us anything though, having it both ways is something that RFC and the MSM see as their right.

    If I was a member of that panel, I’d be considering a consultation with m’learned friends asap, with a view to sending at least two claims for damages.

  35. Auldheid says:

    Goosy
    The point that you bring out is that both the SFA and the public need to know what the purpose of the SFA is. A Mission Statement would be a start.
    Then when the purpose is clarified the best structure for meeting that purpose is created.
    Our common point of agreement is a separation of responsibilties from creator of the policies and regulations and the implementation of them.
    I firmly believe that the SFA provide a service for and to football but are also the judge and jury as to how well that service is provided.
    This makes them only accountable to themselves and changing that would be the biggest culture changing factor it needs as an organisation.
    We now have a greater degree of transparency thanks to rules being available on the Web but there is no conduit for ensuring questions re how rules are observed (or not) are answered.

    Step one though is a statement of the prime goal of the SFA.

  36. Goosy says:

    Auldheid says:

    29/04/2012 at 11:28 pm
    ,,,spot on Auldheid

  37. Auldheid says:

    Private Land
    As I said above the club most affectef by the new process is Rangers. The only time I recall them not getting their way under the old system was an ordering off of Kenny Miller by Willie Colum.
    Walter Smith made a song and dance about but Collum stuck to his decision.
    All of that has changed and it removed an another advantage Rangers enjoyed in recent years.
    When this is over Traynor and Hately will be exposed as the duplicitious chatacters they both are. Traynor must stay away from revolving doors for fear or meeting himself coming in on his way out.
    Hate ly is well named.

  38. paperbhoy says:

    29/04/2012 at 10:33 pm

    Paperbhoy, I think we are at one on this – let’s wait until the dust settles on the current mess, then have a proper, objective review of what went wrong, where were the failings (at a club level, a footballing governance level, a media level etc.) and put some measures in place that avoid a repeat.

  39. Goosy says:

    Looking for advice to help solve a little puzzle

    To our Insolvency Practioners or Legal Experts

    When a company is liquidated and everyhing is over is there a statutory duty on the Liquidator to store all company records for a fixed period?

    If so can these records be accessed for a fee?

  40. Tin Lizzy

    Good comment, but I have seen no evidence of the previous Celtic dynasties having stolen anything. incompetent? Lacking imagination? Yes- without a doubt.

    We should try to stick to more factual statements rather than just repeating the lazy platitudes of conventional wisdom.
    It is like the myths about Celtic’s gates in the 70s & 80s. Just because it is repeated often does not make it true. Celtic Park rarely had more than 35,000 even during successful seasons during this period. (Rangers games and the occasional Aberdeen game notwithstanding). If the official gated were a couple of thousand lighter than what appeared to be inside, it is much more likely to the result of all of us who got lifts, men paying in through the boys gate, and an assortment of scams operated by turnstyle operators. Celtic were much more likely to be the victims than perpetrators.

    The recent idea that there were 50,000 crowds and gates of 17,000 reported is just a modern fabrication.

  41. corsica says:

    Media Pro Sports who are trying to buy QoS and have previous with Raith. I’m sure I saw a similar name linked to CW here. Can anybody help? Somebody suggested I look there.

  42. corsica says:

    There is a similar pattern of a new company with a similar name to an existing company in a similar field (in this case, Pro Sports Media Ltd, based in Blackpool).

  43. MikeC says:

    Ask a question of our financial/legal experts
    Where would rangers be today if Craig Whyte did not buy Rangers last year?

  44. Slimshady says:

    rangerstaxcase says:
    29/04/2012 at 11:55 pm
    ——————————
    I think most Celtic supporters with any savvy know that there was poor accounting controls in the 60s 70s and 80s for what was exclusively at that time a cash business.

    In common with many clubs, Celtic had no automatic turnstyles to count the crowd, it frequently seemed to me and many others that the regulation “22,000” churned out towards the end of the 9 in a row period seemed to be a significant understatement.

    It was often noted, and memorably once caught on camera, that a gentleman would appear in the directors’ box about 15 minutes into the second half and hand a piece of paper to Bob Kelly/Desmond White which he would look at and then stick away in his pocket.

    Undoubtedly not all cash was accounted for in those days; Celtic had an incredible run in Europe between 1965 and 1974 with some enormous crowds – 75,000 at Celtic Park on a regular basis and 2 or 3 games with more than 100,000 at Hampden Park.

    Being a very private company in those days, with the accounts prepared by the White accounting firm, whose senior partner had a major stake in the company, little confidence can be held in those accounts.

    Celtic were not alone in that, almost every major club had similar practices, be it Rangers with the Lawrence family, Newcastle with the McKeagues, Manchester Utd with the Edwards family etc.

    The humour of the understated attendances was best summed up by a moment at Jock Stein’s funeral in 1985 where Bob Crampsey said to Ian Archer “what a great turnout for Jock’s funeral” to which Ian replied “yes but it will seem like less when we read about it in tomorrow’s paper……………”

    54 to 22 (thousand)

  45. Interested Observer says:

    corsica says:

    30/04/2012 at 12:01 am

    Media Pro Sports are not linked with CW. They are linked with Stephen Vaughan, a man with a dubious past who led Chester City to extinction. He is banned from being a company director for 11 years and did time for assault. This is what some fans are saying.

    Gordon Craig is the only director named at this company. Lancashire-based but no one seems to have any idea who they are. Raith chased them and Queen of the South turned down their first offer. They have now come back in again.

    I don’t think this has anything to do with Rangers looking to buy up a good club and then change the name and all that jazz. Besides, they’d be better off looking at Cowdenbeath who are now in the first division. Queens were relegated yesterday.

    One or two posters have dropped heavy hints about ‘Cowdenbeath Rangers’. Their chairman is Donald Findlay. 2+2 = 5?

  46. resinlabdog says:

    Tin Lizzy says:
    29/04/2012 at 10:09 pm

    Might I suggest an apology, a ‘holier than thou’ attitude to the rules, respect for fairplay,and an intolerance for any sort of sectarianism or misbehavior from the RFC fans might be the way to try and reconstrsuct the decency that your club has kicked into the long grass with SDMs onanistic adventure?

    Seriously, magnaninous tolerance of the transgressions of others while your own players stay up in the box and your clubs representatives rage against the unacceptable elements of its own support? Why not?
    I can see how that could restore some much needed dignity.
    Time for RFC(IA) to learn what every other club has known all along. Losing with grace is infinitely more dignified than cheating to win at any cost.

  47. Slimshady says:

    MikeC says:
    30/04/2012 at 12:08 am
    —————————–
    In much the same position with four notable exceptions:-
    1) CW would not have the floating charge
    2) Ticketus would not be involved to the extent that they are
    3) current tax would probably have been accounted for from May to Dec 2011
    4) Paul Murray would have accepted the £9M bid for Jelavic last August

    But there is no doubt Paul Murray’s offer was regarded as lightweight and not of sufficient gravitas to fill the £10M per annum black hole.

    These are amusing side dishes but always very subjective and impossible to prove one way or another.

    It is like the question asked of a commentator after JFK’s assassination:
    “What do you think would have been different if it had been Kruschchev that had been assassinated?”
    “One thing I can say with certainty would have been different is that Aristotle Onassis would not have married Mrs Kruchchev…..”

    Or Hillary Clinton driving into a gas station in Arkansas with Bill a few years ago and having an old boyfriend fill up the tank.

    Bill asked her afterwards what would have happened if she’d married that guy and she replied “you would be working at a gas station filling people’s tanks..”

  48. SteveG67 says:

    Sir David Murray, my hero! Was SDM always anti Rangers? I believe so. I believe project “Destroy Rangers FC” was designed many many years before SDM bought the Gers. A plan was hatched after many minutes of brain storming with the result being, best & safest way to destroy the Gers was from within.
    I am a Celtic fan, always will be and I would be proud to call Sir David Murray my friend, a brother if you like.
    God Bless you Sir David a true angel sent by God to crush the Evil that is Glasgow Rangers Football Club. Job Done!

  49. TheBlackKnight TBK says:

    Lots of strong runours going around the ‘twittersphere’!

    What’s the chances of a serious announcement tomorrow?

    1. No viable buyer?
    2. No cash in the attic?
    3. Games a bogie!

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