Illegal Use of EBTs & Other Issues


Correcting the constant stream of misinformation from the Scottish media has become a tiresome chore. However, in the face of repeated failures of print & radio journalists to check their facts, the task of setting the record straight falls on us: unpaid, amateurs working on a handful of blogs covering Scottish football.

“No one is accusing Rangers of doing anything illegal”
This “misstatement” was started by Rangers’ former chairman, Alastair Johnstone almost two years ago, and is said to have been repeated by Mike McGill of MIH this week. It is nonsense. Rangers have been accused of breaking UK tax law. They stand accused of pursuing an illegal tax strategy. It appears that some journalists lack the skills and/or work-ethic required to research the difference between criminal and civil proceedings.

No one is saying (or has said to the best of my knowledge) that Rangers are facing criminal charges. However, the First Tier Tribunal (Tax) on whose findings we are all waiting, will determine the legality of Rangers tax strategy. If the FTT(T) finds against Rangers, it will have deemed that the strategy used by Rangers for over a decade was indeed illegal. I struggle to believe that any hack is so stupid as to not understand this issue. One wonders if recent contact with Sir David Murray has dulled the investigative zeal of the five hand-picked journalists who were recently granted an audience. I could be wrong. Maybe they were just “duped”? Does this word mean “to have been misled voluntarily?”

Why are there no criminal proceedings?
As we saw with the Harry Rednapp trial, what appears to the general public as an open and shut case, can be very difficult to prove. Weeks of pouring over arcane legal details and endless pages of numbers would drive any jury to distraction. Bored jurors become prey to skilled advocates for the defence resorting to emotional arguments and playing on the likeability of the man in the dock. If it was Rangers on trial, it could be difficult to find a jury that would agree to convict regardless of the evidence presented. (The same might also be said of Celtic). In Rangers’ tax tribunal, three expert judges with extensive experience in tax law will decide.

Mens rea- presents a problem. This legal concept means that prosecutors would have to prove that Rangers, or any individual directors charged, were fully aware that what they were doing was criminal.  As we will see later, some individual actions do appear to be criminal in nature.  However, in Scots Law, we have an additional problem: corroboration. Individual pieces of evidence need to be supported by other submissions in criminal trials. In Scotland, it is difficult to both prove that someone intended to act illegally when breaking tax law and to have enough evidence to support corroboration. This means that criminal convictions for tax evasion are rare. The network of disreputable people who profit by taking advantage of distressed businesses- e.g. by pocketing their withheld tax- deliberately exploit this difficulty of obtain convictions. There is a certain poetic irony in Rangers’ situation- both beneficiary and victim of a flawed system.

Take these factors together and the decision to pursue Rangers through the civil court system will almost certainly be shown to be a wise one. But be in no doubt: Rangers have been accused of acting illegally.

Changing the subject entirely-

Why are Duff & Phelps going to court to get Ticketus deemed to be a creditor?
This issue has been butchered by our friends in the Scottish sports press as well. So I will try to undo some of the damage.
Ticketus believe that they have purchased £20m worth of heavily discounted Rangers tickets over the next four seasons. (The VAT that was not paid to HMRC would not count as Ticketus’ debt). No one in their right mind would want to buy a football club that is obligated to give away an average of 25,000 season tickets per year away to another company. (This would cut Rangers’ turnover in these years by almost half). It would be best for Rangers if this £20m is considered to be a debt. If it is a debt, Ticketus could be forced- under the right conditions- into a “cram down”.  In this situation, they would have to accept the same reduction in the value of debt as the other creditors.

When could a “cram down” happen? If more than 75% of the creditors agree to a reduction in the value of their debt, then all of the debt holders will have the amount they are due reduced proportionately. If Rangers’ total debt after FTT(T) result is returned exceeds £80m, and if Ticketus was treated as an unsecured creditor, they could no longer block a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA).

So what will happen? Without access to the executed version of the contract documents for the Ticketus deal, it is really impossible to say. It is hard to imagine a situation where you think you have bought an asset but had accidentally granted a loan. Yet, Rangers’ difficulties have thrown up many surprises. A few more can be expected. I would assume that Ticketus’ rights to the tickets will be upheld until we hear otherwise.

If Ticketus win their case, they would effectively control Rangers’ future. Owning over 100,000 tickets for a team that no longer exists will not do Ticketus any good however. So they will be inclined to push the other creditors for a CVA. However. they would be able to demand better terms for themselves than the creditors as their price of not liquidating Rangers. This reduces the incentives for the actual creditors to do a deal on any terms.
In a complicated game of Russian roulette, the various parties all understand that the debt level will greatly exceed any price that a buyer will pay. So Ticketus, Craig Whyte, and the unsecured creditors, such as HMRC, will play an elaborate game of bluff and bluster hoping to scare each other with threats of getting less (or nothing) in liquidation.

How will it end? My money is still on liquidation and a lengthy series of court battles that bleed Rangers FC dry in the meantime. Do not forget that Craig Whyte’s ominous silence is unlikely to mean that he has abandoned his floating charge.  However, only a fool would see any certainties in this mess.

About rangerstaxcase
I have information on Rangers' tax case, and I will use this blog to provide the details of what Rangers FC have done, why it was illegal, and what the implications for what was (updated) one of the largest football clubs in Britain.

1,032 Responses to Illegal Use of EBTs & Other Issues

  1. nipples says:

    If Scottish football was well run this past 30 years, if it was growing and in peak condition, if our teams were doing well nationally and at club level, if we were producing world class players like ohhh say the Welsh & Irish are now doing on a regular basis, if we had an entertaining and attractive league structure capable of earning reasonable TV money, if crowds were rising, and investment was strong, if competition was exciting and success well distributed, if ANY of that was true then I might be able to cut the SFA some slack here

    But the fact is – all of the above is an absolute stink out.

    The SFA are, by just about any measure you care to employ, shite at what they do.

    And now this. We finally get a glimpse into the stinking, fetid inner workings of this nest of parasites and now we can see exactly why everything to do with Scottish football is in such a shocking state of disrepair.

    Our game is screwed because our SFA are a collection of cronies, yes men who don’t rock the boat. That is ok for a few years but after decades it results in exactly what we are seeing in Scotland – massive structural decay. It is like having the mafia in control of your local council, after a while everything slowly falls apart because you have cronies and not professionals running the show.

    We need a clean out.

  2. Justinian says:

    campsiejoe says:
    18/03/2012 at 9:44 am

    The dam is now leaking…….
    _______________________________________________________________

    Copyright alert! Dambusters. Only jesting, Joe 🙂

  3. campsiejoe says:

    Justinian @ 10.37am

    Quite ironic also 🙂

  4. steviefrom belfast says:

    RTC as usual you have hit the nail on the head. And in fairness to Tom English, despite himself, he seems to as well. Not only does he appreciate the gravity of the situation re two contracts (it breaks every rule in the book) he also says that if Rangers lose the Big Tax case that guily by association will make Oglivies position untenable – and he’s right.
    Now well it is on some relevance as to whether Oglivie had an EBT or not (as it would provide further proof of knowledge) essentially that is not the main issue. (although it would ahve been interesting to get more detail on repayment terms). I don’t believe that the SFA and Uefa have rules re Directors and administrators having to declare all ‘earnings’ but they do have regarding players. The crux then is did Oglivie, or suspect, that Rangers players were receiving agreed payments that werent declared to the SFA.

    As you say RTC either he did know and did nothing or else he should have known. Either way the SFA will be looking for a new president shortly.

  5. Franchesco De La Penya says:

    There is one Director of Rangers that we all seem to have forgotten about. He Joined them for a few months and was instantly warmed to by their fans as he sat and walked amongst them at matches. He was there first ever RC raised one too, yet he left shortly after without any coverage from the MSM. He is also a highly regarded Finacial Director who could not easily be fooled once he was shown “how things are done around here.”

    If I was guiding the non Scottish based journalists to where they can find the real story and ultimatly the proof we all need to confirm the cheating on the grandest scale in our wee country then he is the man.

    I can’t remember his name though because he came and went without any fanfare but I am sure he was there alright and he being a man of integrity wouldn’t be able to stay around. There may also have been other senior figures who resigned or removed themselves from the goings on around the same time for the same reasons, whatever they were.

    I am not able unlike investigative journalists to dig around and chase up these folks but I am sure you will find the truth there unless Murray tied them up in some way but it has amazed me that they have never been talked about at least to my knowledge here or elsewhere by the Internet bampots.

    Anyway keep up the good work one and all and because of you lot I havnt bought newspapers for nearly a year now and my marriage has come under severe pressure as I spend more time lurking than loving.

  6. Bob Hutton says:

    Every statement CO makes reeks of that same sense of entitlement – his role allegedly changed through the years until he was no longer sure what his role was, yet for many years he was happy to continue as a director with all the perks and privileges that accrued to him. In that respect he’s no different from many other corporate middle-managers, a big sponge that soaks up other peoples’s money.

  7. Lord Wobbly says:

    duggie73 says:
    18/03/2012 at 10:32 am
    0 0 Rate This
    From the Herald piece…
    “I’ve got a clear conscience on it to the best of my knowledge.”
    Not wishing to jump the gun, as that may possibly be a bad
    transcription, but WTF is that supposed to mean?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    See CDubya’s “I can’t remember why I was banned from being a director and wouldn’t want to lie in court” statement for reference.

  8. The Big Man says:

    My favourite quote from the CO “interview” in the Scotsman…

    “What I would say is that there were player contracts which I would have been asked to sign during my time at Rangers – just as an officer of the club who was present in the stadium.”

    The epitome of corporate governance…it could’ve been death warrants, deals to sell the entire company for £1, anything at all…he didn’t care, he signed them because he was there…

  9. campsiejoe says:

    FDLP @ 10.55am

    There is another ex-director, who has so far escaped any scrutiny, and will possibly know more than any mentioned so far

    Step forward Mr Martin Bain

    As a trusted Murray acolyte, he will know where all of the bodies and skeletons are
    Let’s see if anyone in the MSM will tackle him

  10. john clarke says:

    Paul McConville says
    18/03/2012 @ 9.35 a.m.
    ‘ .A lovely sunny morning……… Laetare….’
    ————————————————–
    It’s like being in Prague ’68 or in Berlin when the Wall came down! There’s a tremendous sense off excitement and anticipation as we wait for one of the corrupt icons of Scottish civic society to come crashing down!
    While reading English’s faux-journalism, images flooded my mind of haunted-looking and/or half- mad men in cages being called to account for their (alleged!) misdeeds. Joy indeed, and the contributors to this blog verily ‘laetificant juventutem meam’ .Let’s insist that other pillars of the establishment are forced to follow the paths of truth and justice, and clean out the Augean stables.

  11. paulmac says:

    Private Land says:
    18/03/2012 at 10:34 am
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I wondered how long it would take for this to enter MSM…

    It’s a non starter…but coincidently..10 SPL clubs hold a private meeting to discuss how to take advantage of the current rangers situation..at the the exclusion of Celtic..

    This story I believe is just a flyer to throw into their thoughts.

  12. Allyjambo Taxpayer says:

    Odear says:

    18/03/2012 at 9:55 am

    My thoughts were along those lines too. He, in no way, indicates what questions he asked Ogilvie, but puts in comments that suggest his was a hard hitting interview, asking leading questions, but still manages to make Ogilvie look whiter than ‘Whyte’ (which should be easy even in an interview with Sepp Blatter ha). As a Hearts fan, I’d have liked to know what prompted Ogilvie to mention Hearts. The way it’s included in the article makes it look like Ogilvie himself introduced them into the equasion but I’d suspect that English, never one to miss a chance to take a dig at Hearts and especially Romanov, asked a question that led Ogilvie into mentioning them.
    I’ve had a feeling, since Ogilvie’s position became highlighted in the scandal, that he moved to Hearts (could have been any team) to distance himself from Rangers, before moving onto the SFA to cover Rangers’ back, and, if that was the case, he’d have wanted to steer clear of EBTs and not introduce them to Hearts. (In anything dodgey the less people that know about it the better). Unfortunately, for me and my fellow Jambos, the Ogilvie link is a worrying one and I am not saying that I have any knowledge of whether or not Hearts operated EBTs but as Ogilvie is the only reason the suggestion is being made I remain confident (hopefull) they are in the clear. One thing, HMRC have been all over Hearts for some time now, so if they have operated EBTs, the revenue will know about them.

  13. Lord Wobbly says:

    Private Land says:
    18/03/2012 at 10:34 am
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    That ‘Jumping Hoops’ piece is clearly another volley in the ‘Rangers newco must be parachuted into the SPL’ PR battle.

    Celtic are terrified of life without RFC? Or of whoever replaces them? Har har!

  14. gerrylentils says:

    the present celtic side would probably finish in the bottom half of the epl. however, if we gained entry into the epl and were given our share of the tv money we would be challenging for honours within a few seasons.
    likewise, man utd would not be guaranteed to win the spl because none of their current side would stay at utd if they were playing up here. no tv money up here means no superstar wages.

  15. Hugh McEwan says:

    A thought occurred.

    Was Mr Ogilvie called as a witness at the FTT.

    If so, was his evidence as nebulous under oath.

    Two thoughts occurred actually.

  16. nipples says:

    People who read this blog are football and sports literate and have no doubt long since observed that American Sports are decidedly un-American in nature.

    American sports are all carefully rigged to that the strong subsidize the weak and that no single team can ever achieve long term dominance.

    Americans are remarkably ‘socialist’ when it comes to sports it appears at first glance. But of course the truth is far from that – the Americans simply acknowledge that healthy competition in the league is in everyone’s best financial interests, as a competitive league is an attractive league, is a marketable league, is a profitable league, is a healthy league.

    The SFA just like us are well aware of all this – they know just the same as the yanks and we do. And so the SFA should ALWAYS have been fighting hard to preserve the competitiveness of the leagues to ensure that no single team becomes too dominant because it is bad for business in the long term for everyone.

    So what did our SFA do?

    They worked with Rangers to covertly screw the league by attempting to turn it from a two horse race into a one horse race!

    That is our SFA and they are a stink out disgrace.

  17. Grand slam says:

    Lord Wobbly on 18/03/2012 at 11:08 am said:
    ——————
    That’s a very Celtic orientated view, could it not be the SPL 10’s meeting was in response to the knowledge Celtic were involved in this league 1 thing? Celtic have been pretty bullish as if they had a plan b, and the SPL 10 actually say the reason neither OF we’re invited was as they were looking elsewhere.

    Either way this story in its entirety is intriguing and life’s going to be boring if it ever ends. Like many others in astounded Ogilvy is still hanging on in there and it shows what the SFA think of us that they just don’t appear to care about the rights and wrongs of it.

  18. johnnym says:

    Re Northcroft ‘story’
    “If you think back to the 1980′s then Scottish football was quite rich and Rangers were one of the richest clubs in Europe and could afford people like Terry Butcher and the leading English players.”
    No wonder people are ill informed when journalists from the broadsheets are continually misssing the point.
    RFC IA are in this mess precisely because they couldn’t afford these players.

  19. paulmac says:

    TIGERTIM says:
    18/03/2012 at 9:39 am
    1 1 i
    Rate This
    Sky Sports1 discussing Celtic entering EL1, they seem to be in favour.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Of course they would….but I guarantee you…the legal challenge from EL Div 2 would come flying in quicker than a McCulloch leg breaker…

    And with legal challenge comes delay…with delay comes disruption…with disruption comes financial loss…and with the prospect of financial loss comes..lets keep the status quo..

    Its a non starter I tell you unless the 4 Associations in the UK decide to merge into the UK Football Association OR Celtic relocate to Carlisle and apply to join the bottom tier of English football.

  20. Night Terror says:

    Only 9,464 at Tannadice yesterday, and the United sections seemed fuller than usual for a televised Old Firm visit.

    If one of the main arguments for RFC2’s immediate SPL entry is the revenue their traveling support bestow upon the diddy clubs, I expect Mr Thompson will have taken note of yesterday’s attendance, and I hope other clubs notice as well.

  21. JID says:

    Is Regan an anagram of complete failure in some other lingo ,he has been drawn into the sham that has been the SFA and when you read between the lines of what he is saying lately ,it is a cry for help,well Stuart ,help yourself by doing what is right ,if you dont the fallout from this will stick with you for a very long time ,and for what and who are you scared of,if CO can p#ss on wee niave chic he can do it to you also ,and believe me I can see it comming,you started off well up here in Scotland but the evil that is up here appears to have taken your soul ,if you are too frightened to say just go and we will know from this ,at least try and save some credibility as this will run for a long time to come

  22. layman00 says:

    Nipples

    I agree with your posts that the SFA has been negligent in ensuring a future for Scottish football and is guilty of cronyism

    I am still of the opinion though that to a greater degree greed displayed by footballers and agents is driving decline in smaller leagues throughout Europe. It appears the SFA, in Rangers case, have been either complicit or negligent in allowing them to pay players beyond the clubs income.

    These days its difficult to recall of any players who are loyal to their club and wouldn’t jump ship beause of a better wage regardless of the interested team. Players who do stay at teams generally only do so because their clubs concede to their demands for massive salary increases.

    Leagues throughout Europe are all in decline and clubs teetering on bankruptcy do they too have governing bodies that are as complicit or negligent as ours?

  23. Campbell Ogilvie flushed out.

    http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/rangers-administration-campbell-ogilvie-full-of-regrets-and-wonders-if-he-could-have-done-more-1-2181094

    I wonder if he has provided these details because he got wind that someone had passed those very same numbers to a journalist?
    So Ogilvie has had to rush out to find a tame hack who might report the same in a sympathetic light.

    Price of a night out you say? £95K?

    The best bit is where as company secretary- and a director- he pleads ignorance:
    – I didn’t get involved in player contracts
    – I don’t remember who set up my EBT
    – I didn’t know that they might be illegal

    Absolute bollocks!
    As a director, it is your job to know. As a director you have a legal responsibility to ask questions and satisfy yourself that all at the company, including its tax affairs, is above board and legal. If you are unhappy with what you find, you resign and / or report the company to the authorities.

    Signing off on the annual reports of a company is saying that you have satisfied yourself that everything is legal. It does not mean that someone paid by the company told you not to worry your pretty little head about it.

    Campbell Ogilvie: there is no middle ground that I can see. You are either complicit in directing illegal tax strategies at Rangers (and possibly at Hearts) or you are an incompetent buffoon unfit to hold executive office at the SFA.

  24. TerryONeill says:

    Private Land 10.12 when ogilvie mentioned ebt’s being in rangers annual accounts then by deductive reasoning ah thought the following…..

    If the ebt’s had been recorded at the sfa/spl within the players contract as per spl rule D9.3 and sfa regulation 2.2.1(ALL payments ANY desription) then ogilvie would have told us so.

    The fact that he did not and chose to mention the red herring of year end accounts confirmned to me that ebt’s were never recorded in players contracts.

    Collect yir jaicket campbell hit the cobbles.

  25. tenerifetim says:

    Test

  26. resinlabdog says:

    rangerstaxcase says:
    18/03/2012 at 11:58 am

    Ouch…Got a flamin sore heid today.
    Went out on an ogilvie last night, and now I’m completely skint.

    So anyhoo… Anything good in the papers today? “-)

  27. timtim says:

    I can’t remember who put me into the scheme but I didn’t question it because it was set up perfectly legally.”

    It’s a very technical issue
    —-
    (coming soon) I may have been duped ?

  28. Smell the glove says:

    When they’re not singing from the banned songbook, they’re singing like a bird. CO’s interview on top of AJ and SDM shows how stupid these rfc directors are. No wonder they’re in such a mess. If the sfa don’t sack CO, they’re complicit in corruption at the highest level. FIFA and UEFA need to be made aware of what’s going on in Scottish football before we’re lost forever. One thing’s for sure, Scottish football fans do and will do walking away.

  29. Auldheid says:

    RTC
    That is some volcano you have been sitting on.

    When tne FTT declares will it be Vesuvius Etna/Pompei or Krakatoa (sp?)

  30. The issue of who put CO into the scheme is off-topic.

    He is not a player and doesn’t have to register all his football related income with the SFA/SPL.

    The point is he knew all about EBT, he knew players had EBT, he should have known the SFA rules, he should go now.

  31. Smell the glove says:

    The MSM are complete idiots. Tom English, feck me, do they come any thicker than that moron? Oh yes they do, Chick and Jabba and Dawyll and Jacko and Keevins. Useless hacks.

  32. Auldheid says:

    Terry O
    And don’t forget yer own shabby raincoat Colombo. 😉

  33. Hugh McEwan says:

    timtim says:
    18/03/2012 at 12:38 pm

    I can’t remember who put me into the scheme but I didn’t question it because it was set up perfectly legally.”

    It’s a very technical issue
    —-
    (coming soon) I may have been duped ?

    ==========================================

    To be fair on Campbell Ogilvie he is the first person ever to use the excuse “A big boy gave me £95,000 and ran away”

  34. toby says:

    JID says:
    18/03/2012 at 11:35 am

    Is Regan an anagram of complete failure in some other lingo ?

    Possibly but anger most certainly is – Mr Regan and his colleagues may be well and truly out of their depths shortly when the full wrath of everyone with a genuine interest in Scottish football is brought to bear through some quality investigative journalism. There is now too much in the public arena and too much interest for this now to be swept under the carpet or dismissed for so long as some long held Celtic paranoia. But it won’t be pretty. There will be accusations and recriminations – Ogilvie’s pathetic attempt with a fawning Mr English is his first endeavour to extricate himself from the shi#tty path leading to his door. You’ll need more than good luck Mr Ogilvie.

    There will be many others. Lord Nimmo Smith may find himself with an extended sojourn at SFA headquarters – the remit for the last independent inquiry was no where far-reaching enough. Any half baked journalist -there seem to be no shortage of those around -could tell you that. But when you have genuine interest like Alex Thomson now knocking on the door for Channel 4 it suddenly becomes very much more uncomfortable for those that have enjoyed a very cosy time in the echelons of the Scottish game. The game is on its knees in terms of credibility and it could very well transpire that the charge brought against Craig Whyte and Rangers of bringing the game into disrepute could well be a self-reflexive and damning judgement on the SFA itself.

    Scottish sports journalists unwilling, uninterested, or just plain complicit in all of this must hang their heads in utter shame. Attempts to somehow backdate interest and claim kudos for many of the stories breaking now would have seemed completely breathtaking maybe a few years ago to those who have been following, contributing and enjoying this blog for nearly a year now – we are in no way surprised by this miserable post-event clamour to appear responsible for breaking the news – you are a sham and disgrace. For those of us who can still stand to listen or even call in to the phone in shows about the whole sorry mess – we now lament your pathetic attempts at self pity as you are now seen for the spineless and embarrassed Elmers you are.

    There is hope for you and journalistic integrity though and for the Football authorities to show a pair of cojones – for there is a lot more to come and a lot more dirt to be found. Our game demands it – so please get off the gravy train so many seem to have enjoyed lounging on for so long. Don’t just relapse to the same old ways – the game can’t afford it. When so much of what has gone on is around money and greed it is ultimately football that is impoverished for it all.

    Be part of the solution – not part of the cause, as in another sporting parlance – our game is on the ropes and all you guys are doing is just pulling down the shorts.

  35. tilhotdogsbark says:

    TerryONeill says:

    18/03/2012 at 12:10 pm

    Excellent point T. When I heard that he had given interviews to be published today I thought that if he fails to confirm that EBTs were incorporated into the player packs forwarded to the SFA then the game’s up.

    Guess what?

  36. Paul Ensa says:

    JID says:
    18/03/2012 at 11:35 am

    Is Regan an anagram of complete failure in some other lingo ?

    In Spanish – negar = to deny.

  37. Auldheid says:

    layman00 says:

    18/03/2012 at 11:50 am

    Nipples

    I am still of the opinion though that to a greater degree greed displayed by footballers and agents is driving decline in smaller leagues throughout Europe. It appears the SFA, in Rangers case, have been either complicit or negligent in allowing them to pay players beyond the clubs income.
    ====================================
    Spot on, but who created the environment of success at any price? None of us can escape the interdependent nature of the business of football. When we do, we might approach the business differently. You might find this of interest.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kpMnLxNJhhK3i2dsLpd9oRHxjvDrS8GLGhNNVKEldRw/edit#

  38. martybhoy says:

    Getting a wee bit worried about Paul Murray’s ‘red herring’ description of the BTC.He seems supremely confident that even if another sucker punch @ circa 50 mill was loaded on to the overall debt,then it would proportionately reduce the pence in the pound offer in a CVA.

    Not an accountant or a lawyer but if HMRC accept this then RFC(ia) will come out of administration just as most other SPL teams enter into it, to take advantage of Hector’s new found laissez fare attitude to paying of taxes.

    Sounds too simplistic but could this happen?

  39. Night Terror says:

    @martybhoy
    If a clubs’s creditors are >25% the bank, they can forget agreeing a CVA.

  40. layman00 says:

    Auldheid says:

    18/03/2012 at 1:25 pm

    Many thanks Auldheid, I have spotted the analogy from that piece posted on here previously and sums up the current problems and way ahead pefectly.

    Out of interest, was this a piece penned by yourself?

  41. Derek says:

    Night Terror says:
    18/03/2012 at 1:40 pm
    0 0 i
    Rate This
    @martybhoy
    If a clubs’s creditors are >25% the bank, they can forget agreeing a CVA.
    ============================
    nothing to do with “the bank”. Its >25% by value of the club’s creditors

  42. Hoopy 7 says:

    Just catching up. Great posts as usual. CO has no moral rectitude, he should go and go now for the good of the game.

    There is little honour left in this Thatcheristic world of “who can we shaft today”.

    It is time for Regan, and I have said this before, to stand up to the Blazers. We need a complete clear out of all the self serving, self interested cronies who have filled their wallets.

    An independent Judicial Inquiry should be set up to ascertain what was wrong and what is wrong and recommend a solution to the governance of our game.

    What does a Blazer who has never even played the game at school level know about the game?

  43. Derek says:

    martybhoy says:
    18/03/2012 at 1:34 pm
    Getting a wee bit worried about Paul Murray’s ‘red herring’ description of the BTC.He seems supremely confident that even if another sucker punch @ circa 50 mill was loaded on to the overall debt,then it would proportionately reduce the pence in the pound offer in a CVA.

    Not an accountant or a lawyer but if HMRC accept this then RFC(ia) will come out of administration just as most other SPL teams enter into it, to take advantage of Hector’s new found laissez fare attitude to paying of taxes.

    Sounds too simplistic but could this happen?
    =========================================
    Just because Paul Murray, the MSM and even the Interim Managers mention CVA doesn’t alter the fact that there will be no CVA.

    There will be no deal with HMRC – and what’s more the Interim Managers will be well aware of this.

  44. tilhotdogsbark says:

    martybhoy says:

    18/03/2012 at 1:34 pm

    These comments from Murray are disturbing and demonstrate that this club is as morally bankrupt as it is financially. He is suggesting that the quantum will have no bearing on creditors accepting or rejecting a CVA. However he may have a point, would HMRC have any more difficulty explaining the rationale behind accepting £1m as opposed to £2m as their share of a CVA pay out?

    I would trust that HMRC will agree or disagree with any proposed CVA on points of principle and precedent rather than on the scale of the sums involved.

  45. martybhoy says:

    Derek,I hope you are right and all that Murray and Dodgy Dave King are doing is posturing to be head of queue for Newco FC……i so hope you are right….Nothing would surprise me in Scottish Football these days though!!

  46. Discipline Daddy says:

    Francesco de la Penya – his name was/is Bob Brannan. He came, he saw, he left within months and we’ve not heard a peep since. That’s if he’s anything to tell. Who knows?

  47. Auldheid says:

    layman00 says:

    18/03/2012 at 1:42 pm

    Aye, it was in the CQN Magazine slightly altered and in NTV in the form you read.

    The problem of course is that until all of football recognises the real constraint of the business and as long as rich Arabs and Russians etc get away with priming the wage pump, Sky keep priming the EPL and pundits with their noses in the trough like Keys/Gray/Durham etc keep advocating the current “arrangement” , that arrangement will prevail.

    I cannot see supporters putting aside the very dynamic that drives everything – the search for glory- for them to insitigate change. However the more clubs that go out of business the harder the current arrangement is to defend.

    Every professional league should have its own FFP rules but more than adopting the rules, it needs to adopt the ethic behind them, otherwise you get EBTs etc.

  48. Moi says:

    Hoopy 7 says:
    18/03/2012 at 1:50 pm

    ……What does a Blazer who has never even played the game at school level know about the game?

    Good call Hoopy, we have all known that since our teenage years haven’t we?

    I remember reading (it may have been here in the early days) about the Australian sport model where the Aussies headhunt the young, dynamic retired sportsmen/women to head up their respective sport authority.

    Shirley that must be the way forward?

    The absolute radical alternative to that option is one that was only whispered until the RTC genesis is;

    SFA, can you just do your freaking job please?

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