Disinformation and Deceit


Coming hot on the heels of the public acceptance of truth that this blog has been bringing you, the disinformation campaign has stepped up a gear.

A rumour has recently started to take hold that HMRC’s case against Rangers is in trouble because of a 6-year rule for bringing assessments against taxpayers.  This rumour, which we will see is entirely false, has been taken to heart for the comfort it provides by the less sentient creatures who inhabit the world of Rangers messageboards.  Let me clear this up now:  it is rubbish.

The real rules are as follows:

HMRC “normally” have 24 months from the end of an accounting period to start an enquiry.

Where a company has provided “inadequate disclosure”, the statute of limitations was recently reduced to four years, but remains six years where a company has “acted carelessly”.  Sounds promising for Rangers fans?  Well, do not get too excited.  In cases involving “deliberate misstatement”, HMRC has a full 20 years to open an enquiry (let alone conclude it).

Those who have been following this blog will be in little doubt as to in which category Rangers will find themselves.  “Deliberate misstatement” is so much at the core of this case, it could be the title of a film about it.  Not only did Rangers FC repeatedly misstate the facts (to fans, ordinary shareholders, and HMRC alike), they got caught in a very provable way.  (The patient will be rewarded with a full explanation in time).

Back to the 6-year myth: where did this particular piece of disinformation originate?

This yarn first found life on a blog: ScotsLawThoughts.wordpress.com.  What follows is a comical (well it amused me!) tale of the extent some will go to try to prevent the truth from taking hold.

A poster on that blog by the name Louie posted:

louie

Sorry Paul have been busy with papers, to clarify Malcolm is not sitting on the Tribunal. He was asked to scan the developments in Edinburgh and give opinion on the arguments presented, he was not overly impressed by the naked naivety of some of the HMRC positions. He picked up on the six year rule immediately a very grey area that no self respecting Silk should or would stray into, Whytes people are using it in their presentation and defences.
All in all I am told he thinks Andrew has driven a coach and horses through HMRC submissions, he is annoyed because he wanted a clear run at the matters involving English clubs, he will be HMRC lead in any proceedings, however he feels Edinburgh matters could put this event some way off.

Interesting?  It might keep the candle of hope burning if you did not know the facts.  Firstly, the posting tries to invoke the reputation of Malcolm Gammie QC.  That particular Malcolm is a very highly regarded English tax lawyer.  He has no role whatsoever in the current case against Rangers.

The bit that tickled me most is that I asked Paul McConville, publisher of the blog in question, to forward me the IP address assigned to Louie for his posts.  I compared it to the IP addresses used on RangersTaxCase.com.  “Louie” has posted on this site no less than 120 times.  Regular readers might be surprised to learn this as they will not recognise the name.  Breathe easy, for Louie is better known on this site by his other names:

  • rasputin
  • cannon
  • stewy
  • malky
  • rhuari
  • theaccountant
  • jinkyal
  • sam
  • … and in his latest incarnation: ashton
Many of the posts of this character have not seen the light of day as they have been moderated and sent to SPAM heaven.  However, this might be a good time to resurrect some of this guy’s efforts over the life of this blog:
rasputin
Submitted on 2011/03/29 at 6:30 am

I can tell you that you will need a bigger shovel to fill in the hole you are digging. The “Tax Inquiry” involving Rangers FC, will be formally abandoned at the Edinburgh First Tier status, on 18th April 2011, do have a nice day.

rasputin
Submitted on 2011/03/29 at 11:49 am | In reply to rangerstaxcase.

It is not a continuation, there never was a hearing last October, hence First Tier status. Believe me I should know and I do know, c’est la vie.

rasputin
Submitted on 2011/03/29 at 1:59 pm | In reply to rangerstaxcase.

Any secret dossiers on the go, you know the sort, refs, tax cases, care in the community, lack of care in the community that sort of thing,cos your taxation fairytale is just that..must dash ..golf is a calling,,,tout de suite…

cannon 
Submitted on 2011/03/31 at 8:37 am

Now that scotzine has saw sense and capitulated to whyte’s lawyers, who’s next.

theaccountant
Submitted on 2011/08/16 at 8:57 am

Story is , Thornhill of Pump Court Tax Chambers, is suggesting that those favoured by the scheme, were not direct employees of Rangers, that they were in fact subcontracted due to the nature and structure of disputed scheme. There could be a problem there with SFA registrations, however Thornhill is said to be claiming that the players/subcontractors gifted control of said registrations to Rangers FC, which would also affect tax status.

Appears he has blind sided HMRC with this justification of the scheme, insisting no defence is necessary, for a perfectly legal use of taxation law and legislation. The general consensus is that Thornhill is leading by a country mile, HMRC being a poor second at this stage.

sam
Submitted on 2011/09/05 at 9:37 am

Word going round at Centre 1, that the big case is being abandoned.

sam
Submitted on 2011/09/05 at 9:58 am

I wasn’t suggesting anything BK, I may be a lowly maintenance worker, but I overheard several high heid yins, while I was doing some maintence on the exec floor. The rank and file seem to be talking about it that way now also, seem to think it would have also been not went this length of time, if it was nailed on. Strange that the owner dismisses ant view, his own apart as comedic.

sam

I still don’t get it, if rangers and their bosses have committed a criminal offence, evasion, they would face criminal charges, if they have committed no offence, avoidance, why is taxpayers money being wasted, it is one or the other, criminal or not.

ashton
Submitted on 2011/10/11 at 9:39 pm

Paranoia is alive and well and being practised by a few here.. RTC has been consistent in his doubts as to any outcome.

Well whoever you are, you have had a good run! 🙂  Thanks for the sport.
I have had some negative messages from more  professional and sinister origins, and I really think that this guy is just a Rangers fan doing his bit to try to spread disinformation.  He probably thinks that it is in the best interests of his club, Rangers, for this story to be derailed.
I wonder where the followfollow brigade will find their next crumbs of comfort?

About rangerstaxcase
I have information on Rangers' tax case, and I will use this blog to provide the details of what Rangers FC have done, why it was illegal, and what the implications for what was (updated) one of the largest football clubs in Britain.

333 Responses to Disinformation and Deceit

  1. JD says:

    Does anyone know the weekly/monthly wage bill at Ibrox

  2. Mark Dickson says:

    How about nobody pays any taxes and just keeps their own money? That’s fair – why should anybody pay for societies needs or the needs of others? people should raise the money they need to look after themselves or suffer the consequences?

    —————————————————————————————-

    I don’t really believe the above but it parodies some other peoples opions.

    Regards football if we organise it so that we’ve dismantled the economic factors that helped promote some competition and fairness and do nothing to prevent unrestricted money power from monoplising completely then we will get a situation that echoes the current SPL

    We have gone from 8 out of 20 titles being won from 1946-1965 by clubs other than Rangers & Celtic down to 4 titles out of 20 being won by other teams from 1996-1985 to ZERO titles having been won by other clubs from 1986 until the present.

    If competition is the lifeblood of sport then little wonder the SPL & Scottish football is on it’s arse and we’ve turned it into a complete 2 horse race instead of only a partial 2 horse race that it was previously but one that other horse could still win now & again without having to bankrupt themselves attempting to do so or else finding Man City type wealthy owners and buying the title.

  3. BustedBallsan'a'that says:

    I’m sure you’ve posted all of this before and like before got bored early on and stopped reading. A two horse race isn’t so bad for a country with limited income and if the rest can become a little more competitive, great.
    I’m not talking necessarily about Scotland here either. Tell me of any country where more than two can win the league consistantly? I include Ingurland in that.

  4. Let’s not gang up on Jmclure.

    He is asking legitimate questions in a reasonable manner. Let’s answer them in kind.

    A fair outcome would be that Rangers are severely punished or handicapped in a way that is at least proportionate to the crime. I agree that it would be best that RFC survives, but I would prefer that they disappeared rather than escape fair punishment.

    The anger and enthusiasm for Rangers’ terminal demise is born out of a fear that a belief that RFC are “too big to fail” will dominate. The fear is that Rangers will escape meaningful punishment.

    As with investment banks, when “too big to fail” is applied we create moral jeopardy. We send the signals that cheating is actually the smart thing to do. It is bad when it happens in finance, but it is deadly when allowed to happen in sport.
    If the fans see that the game is loaded, it dies. In many ways, this is what has happened in Scottish football. The fans of many clubs have given up in the face of what they perceive to be a pre-determined outcome.

    If Rangers are allowed to survive without meaningful punishment, we might as well sew another 5 stars on your shirt now. Interest in the game will collapse and Rangers will have the league to itself if it is allowed to go unpunished.

  5. Paulie Walnuts says:

    Chalmers,

    Its not so much a case of cheating the creditors. Its more that the debtor (ie Rangers) can’t pay all of the creditors whatever happens. So in that situation you have to turn the assets into cash and distribute the proceeds amongst the creditors. On the hive down the newco will pay a price which will be paid to the receiver/administrator/liquidator and after deduction of the expenses f the exercise the proceeds will be distributed among the creditors in the appropriate order. Now of course the appropriate order is that Wavetower gets everything it is owed before anyone else gets a bean, but that is just the way it is and was always going to be. If we substitute LBG for wavetower no-one would bat an eyelid.

    The trophies etc are assets and in theory would have to be sold. There is however no rule which says they must be sold separately and it is lilely that the whole shooting match of the business would be sold to the newco as a job lot with the trophies included in that.

    The salaries will be on a monthly run. Either last business day or perhaps last Thursday or Friday of the month. There is a decision here. Why pay out whatever the bill is this month – close to £2m I think, unless you mean to see out the following month too. If the plug is to be pulled the logical time to do it is either now or towards the end of next month.

  6. Mark Dickson says:

    BustedBallsan’a’that says:
    24/10/2011 at 5:46 pm

    The SPL is far and away the least competitive league in all of EUROPE with the fewest title winners of any country large or small.

    That didn’t happen by accident it has been by design as clubs wittingly or unwittingly made changes to the distribution of how football income was shared around.

    Surely with any changes you look after a period of time and assess whether the change was beneficial or not.

    If you take the Hearts / Hibs / Rangers / Celtic tinted spectacles off and take an overview then it is clear to anyone and especially outsiders that we have weakened competition in our league and made it very uncompetitive.

    Is that a good or bad thing? depends on who you support however attendances are falling away at all grounds due to a combination of too high prices and relatively poorer quality.

    How do you propose we fix that?

  7. Cortes says:

    Chalmers at 5.11:

    Great point about trophies etcetera.

    Plus there must be a Halloween market for the goat down in the Shire

  8. cv160 says:

    As it look like failing to pay the bills is becoming more and more inevitable by those playing in blue, Is it possible for someone (maybe RTC) to explain the layman the difference between insolvency, administration, liquidation, etc.

    I did a quick google search, but it didnt really come up with anything that was clear when being applied to football clubs.

    Cheers

  9. curious onlooker says:

    The amount of righteous upholders of the moral high ground on here surprises me when I´d be prepared to wager that some have worked at or been the benificiary of British companies who have avoided paying what the punter would regard a fair rate of tax.

    Indeed the focus that is currently on the 1% is way more important than the issue discussed on this blog. And whilst I understand the motives, take a minute to consider the heavy and serial offenders out there who may have the law on their side (just) but is it right ?

    I´d love morals to come back into fashion, for football to be a sport and not a business, for the generations to talk with each other again but it would appear it´s not to be and it won´t start with the vote re. Rangers Newco.

  10. Mouldy67 says:

    Keep up the good work

  11. macon rouge says:

    Paulie Walnuts at 5:49.

    If the deed is to be done tw’ere best that it be done sooner…

    Wages, added to the arrested money, makes it even more likely to cut and run very soon, if he is going to do it.

  12. droid says:

    ha ha ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha ha ha

  13. Mark Dickson says:

    Rangers have won 54 league titles

    They won 37 in 94 years from 1892 until 1986 which equates to 68.5% of their title wins in 78.5% time of the leagues overall existence. A winning ratio of exactly 40%

    Since 1986 and post abolition of gate-sharing Rangers have won 17 out of 26 titles ie 31.5% of their titles in just 21.5% of the leagues existence. A winning ratio of 65%

    Celtic by comparison have won 42 titles

    they won 33 in 94 years from 1982 until 1986 which equates to 78.5% of their title wins in 78.5% time of the leagues existance. A winning ratio of 35%

    Since and including 1986 and post abolition of gate-sharing celtic have won 9 titles out of 26 ie 21.4% of their titles in just 21.5% of the leagues existance. A winning ratio of 35% (ie unchanged)

    Abolishing gate-sharing has had little noticeable effect or improvement on Celtic’s long term performance ie they win almost exactly the same number of titles now as before HOWEVER by effectively ending the likelyhood of the competition being able to financially compete and turning the SPL into solely a 2 horse race then due to a number of factors Rangers ability to win titles over the long term has increased form 40% of titles won to 65% of titles won in the last quarter century since Aberdeen last won the title in 1985.

    I know this repeats everything I’ve said before but it looks to me as if Celtic have been DUPED?

    More competition was netutral to Celtic but clearly less advantageous to Rangers chances.

  14. rab says:

    RTC

    An excellent overview of the reasons behind the sometimes over passionate posts on the blog.

    Summed it up perfectly for me, and im sure its spot on for the majority of other posters and the wider scottish football community. Is their no end to your talents.

  15. Paulsatim says:

    rangerstaxcase says:
    24/10/2011 at 4:35 pm

    first I have ever heard of this. This idea had so little traction that it dd not attract a single vote in favour on the one time it was voted upon. The idea of Celtic alone joining the EPL has never been discussed outside of Celtic messageboards.
    =============================================================

    I posted about this before. I deff recall the day after the Championship chairmen’s meeting, reading, possibly on CQN, that Phil Gartside asked the other chairmen, off the record, that if next time only Celtic were offered a place in Championship how they would vote and according to the report that Celtic would be successful.

  16. Private Land says:

    Mark Dickson says:

    24/10/2011 at 1:06 pm
    ________________________________

    Celtic don’t need Rangers at all – and they don’t NEED to have a financial stranglehold on the SPL either. In terms of filthy lucre, it is nice to have al of those things, but it’s not necessary for our existence.

    As an aside, don’t forget that the other clubs allowed Celtic and Rangers have that voting structure going.

    Celtic will get along fine with the rest of the clubs in the SPL, and even with a more even spread of the SPL wealth, I’d fancy Celtic to more than hold their own.

  17. TheBlackKnight says:

    Mark Dickson says:
    24/10/2011 at 1:06 pm

    Mark, substitute ‘Rangers’ for Hearts (or any other team for that matter with a substantial support)

    I’m sure EJ would support such a proposition.

  18. rab says:

    Who is likely to be first to know when rangers have entered admin/receivership. Will it be a special press conference, or will one of the connected on here find out earlier via a court document, or maybe through a friendly editor being given a pre-emptive nod to prepare a propaganda piece, or some other way that leaks out before intended.

    Is there a wee sweepstake running, to see who delivers the punchline. 😀

  19. Chalmers says:

    Thanks for your response, Paulie.

  20. Frank Curran says:

    rab,

    i think any announcement would be disclosed by The London Stock Exchange as rfc are a listed company.
    i stand to be corrected.

  21. JMaclure says:

    Private Land says:
    24/10/2011 at 6:34 pm

    Celtic will get along fine with the rest of the clubs in the SPL, and even with a more even spread of the SPL wealth, I’d fancy Celtic to more than hold their own.
    —————————————————————————————————-

    That’s laughable, it really is.

  22. ramsay smith says:

    How’s this for a solution?

    Rangers newco are allowed straight back into the SPL on condition that they pay to HMRC the amount owed to HMRC, as at the date of liquidation, over ten equal yearly payments.

    That’s approximately the period the EBT scheme ran.

    They’d be handicapted for those ten years by more or less the amount they gained each year the scheme was running.

    Every one’s a winner (apart from the other creditors of course).

  23. Private Land says:

    Dave,

    I suppose it is possible that a Celtic director told you that stuff about the EPL – but I can assure you he’s lying. It never, ever happened. Please trust me on that.

    That is why Celtic continue to tie themselves to Rangers in so many ways – because there is no other game in town than Rangers. If the EPL was even a remote possibility, Celtic would have been calling full-time on that game.

    Also, although Rangers fans are not particularly well regarded darn sarf, we need to open our eyes to the reality that neither will the English embrace the constituency of our support that glorifies PIRA. No anti-Celtic or anti-Catholic or anti-Irish sentiments from them – just a population who are appalled by those sentiments.

    RTC is correct in that a cost benefit analysis of such a move reveals no upside for Celtic’s – or Rangers’ – entry to the EPL.

    And since when were Sky struggling financially? They certainly don’t have my subscription, but last I heard they were doing more than okay.

    What Scottish football needs is a reality check. We simply don’t have the pool of home-bred talent to ever make our teams feared in Europe the way Celtic, and to lesser extent Rangers, were from 1966 to 1975. We have find our own level, and unfortunately the direction of travel is down. The reason Rangers – and by consequence the national game – is in dire straits is exactly because of David Murray’s delusional refusal to accept where that level is.

    I think our game will be assisted by the demise of Rangers. I feel that Newco will not have the same level of support amongst the knuckle-draggers anyway, so a re-emergent Rangers may be of benefit to the game rather than a millstone around its neck.

    In the meantime, there is an opportunity to have a restructuring of the sport which addresses the needs of its development and not just the vested interests of one or two clubs, leading to an honest competition between all clubs. Thay may well lead to a situation where we are as competitive in Europe as teams from the Dutch, Norwegian Austrian, and Serbian leagues, but probably not any better than that.

    The problem is this though, and you will recognise this in your Celtic director friend, for it is in the DNA of football directors throughout this country;
    You tell the Scottish Football Director that there is a box full of millions of pounds in cash he can open with a key in a fortnight. You then offer him a tenner for the key TODAY. He’ll sell you the key. That is why Celtic will vote for Rangers to continue seamlessly in the SPL.

  24. Private Land says:

    JMaclure says:

    24/10/2011 at 7:34 pm

    Private Land says:
    24/10/2011 at 6:34 pm

    Celtic will get along fine with the rest of the clubs in the SPL, and even with a more even spread of the SPL wealth, I’d fancy Celtic to more than hold their own.
    —————————————————————————————————-

    That’s laughable, it really is.
    _________________________________________________________________

    Well I’m happy to assist you raise a chuckle at this time. 🙂

  25. droid says:

    A man shall eat good by the fruit of his mouth: but the soul of the transgressors shall eat violence. -Proverbs 13:2

  26. Mark says:

    I am a Rangers supporter and a football supporter.

    aye and I’m a lover of women and a misogynist

  27. MWD says:

    After the recent BBC documentary re. Craig Whyte’s alleged criminality and suspension from being a director of a British company for 7 years, I noted on various Timternet blogs many posters advocating that they would consider not renewing their season books if our board voted supporting a newco Rangers FC being allowed to re-enter SPL in the event that existing Rangers FC incur a liquidation event that sees the current Ranger FC die. I decided it would be a good idea to attempt to garner the view of the Celtic support so I created a Poll asking the following question of the Celtic support:

    In the event that Rangers FC experience a liquidation event were a new company, Rangers FC 2012, is born from the ashes of embarrassment, do you believe our club, Celtic FC, should vote to allow the new company to take the place of the old, defunct, Rangers FC in the SPL with immediate effect.

    1085 voted.

    NO. – 1052 97%
    YES. – 26 2%
    Not Sure – 7 1%

    If you’ve not voted already please do so via http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/Poll/Embed/WEB22DHLBN6HKN?e

    The more Celts who vote the more powerful a statement the results will be. The Poll will be open for another 24 days so please pass, email, txt, twitter, facebook, post on other Celtic sites.

  28. ramsay smith says:

    Private Land says:
    24/10/2011 at 7:48 pm
    ‘Dave,

    I suppose it is possible that a Celtic director told you that stuff about the EPL – but I can assure you he’s lying. It never, ever happened. Please trust me on that.’

    The only way you can state that as a fact is if you’re the chairman of an EPL club.

    Otherwise it’s an opinion.

  29. ItaliaBhoy says:

    BSkyB announced profits of £1billion this year.

    Struggling they are not…

  30. DAVE says:

    If as you say it never happened can you expand on that ? I assure you thats what was said and have no reason to doubt the gentleman in question.

  31. paulmac says:

    If tomorrow…Rangers were to apply and be accepted into the EPL..

    Would they give 2 thoughts to the rest of Scottish football?..No!

    Would they consider the financial impact on Scottish football?…No!

    Would Scottish football survive without them?…They would have to.

    Would there need to be a complete restructure of the finances in the SPL?..Most certainly!

    All the above applies just the same if Rangers where to go out of business tomorrow..the only difference would be…they could return to the SPL in 3 to 4 seasons having worked their way back from Div 3…

    That should be a significant warning to every team in Scotland and beyond that financial doping does not have any a get out of jail free card.

  32. The 60 day issue (which renders the end of this month important) is when the HMRC arrestment gives them priority over other creditors. The thorny issue relates to receivership upon a floating charge. Traditionally receivership trumped an arrestment, no matter how long it had been in place for, unless an action of furthcoming had been concluded too (a court action asking the court to order the bank or other party holding the funds to pay them to the creditor). This was the ratio of the case of Lord Advocate v RBS.

    There were some changes to the Insolvency Act which cast some doubt on this remaining the position, as it seemed to suggest that the effectual execution of diligence might no longer require an action of furthcoming to have some priority in a receivership. I recall reading papers from Shepherd & Wedderburn, Solicitors, discussing this.

    As a result of this issue being discussed on twitter last week, a contact was good enough to send me some notes on the specific issue (executed diligence rather than Rangers). As the notes run to 27 pages and over 6,300 words of detailed legal analysis, I must confess I have not fully digested them yet!

    When I do, and if I think more light can be shed, then I will be happy to drop in some more contributions on the point!

  33. Once A Bhoy says:

    Mark Dickson says:
    24/10/2011 at 6:14 pm

    These figures are drastically skewed bearing in mind the added financial doping rfc enjoyed in the latter highlighted era. This also affected proportionally Celtic’s win total.

  34. john says:

    Not being an expert on these things i find it hard to understand several things

    1: If rangers go into administration, how can craig whyte control what happens?
    2: If craig whyte has a charge over ibrox or murray park, what is to stop another person or company offering the administrator more cash than the value of the charge for either?
    3: If the transaction between murray and whyte was set up in such a way to bypass payment to other creditors and hmrc is this legal?

    Can anyone help here!

  35. easyJambo says:

    Paul McConville says: 24/10/2011 at 7:58 pm

    Paul you’ve got until midnight on Wednesday to provide your definitive legal opinion on this issue, otherwise we are into PMacG’s 27th/28th forecast period. A late submission will not be accepted at the court of RTC. 🙂

  36. I note that I am now classed along with Phil Mac Ghiolla Bhain and RTC as one of the “gruesome threesome”, at least as per this blog and its commenters. http://chrisgraham76.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/barmy-bloggers-and-the-bbc/

    I suspect saying that I was honoured by the comparison might be interpreted the wrong way by some readers!

    But if it is for being assiduous in analysing issues, and writing about them in a thought provoking and interesting way, then I would be delighted to be seen in that company.

    As I say, Mr Graham is entitled to his opinion, even if the parts about me are based upon prejudiced and inaccurate press reporting (where have I heard that before?) and inaccurate.

  37. easyJambo says:
    24/10/2011 at 8:09 pm
    ————————————————————
    I suspect that there are various Counsel’s Opinions floating around Rangers’ lawyers offices and the HMRC regarding these points.

    Where is Sam the maintenance man when we need some good insider info from the tax man?

    🙂

  38. paulmac says:

    DAVE says:
    24/10/2011 at 7:57 pm

    If as you say it never happened can you expand on that ? I assure you thats what was said and have no reason to doubt the gentleman in question.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Dave I have no reason to doubt you…but was this said in a 1 to 1 or in an open discussion with others in attendance?

    I have worked within the FA structure and can assure you the legal position within the pyramid system is such that the legal challenge from a large number of clubs at all levels of that system would have the football league program kicked into touch for a number of years.

    The EPL have no constituitional right to allow a leapfrog scenario to take place. Teams within the pyramid system..when they win promotion must apply to the next level up..to be accepted and they must meet all the criteria as laid down by that league.

    The SPL is not a recognised supply league for teams to be considered for acceptance. Celtic would need to resign from the SPL and the Scottish football association, before they could consider applying and it would be the lower tier of the pyramid they would need to enter.

    Unless all of the above changes by an EGM at all levels to vote for complete change, then there is only one other route possible and that is for FIFA to vote for the dissolvement of the home associations and to demand a merging of the home nations into a UK football league. This would require a complete restructure of football in the UK. The Olympics next year may see a move towards this by FIFA.

  39. Private Land says:

    DAVE says:

    24/10/2011 at 7:57 pm

    If as you say it never happened can you expand on that ? I assure you thats what was said and have no reason to doubt the gentleman in question.
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Dave,

    I thought I did expand on that at some length. If someone purporting to be connected to Celtic told you that, would you not want ask him how and why and when Celtic would be making more overtures? Why not ask a million other questions to enable an assessment of whether or not that proposition is true. Like why would Celtic go out and do a joint sponsorship deal with a club they don’t want to be associated with? Surely you don’t just accept what a director of a football club tells you at face value. Has this blog taught us nothing?

    Since I am not, as Ramsay has suggested a director of an EPL club, how else can I know? Well firstly, I don’t know for a fact. I’ve never been to Australia, so I have no evidence that it exists. I’m pretty sure it’s there though – and I’m more than pretty sure the EPL is a pipe dream which Celtic want to keep alive in the minds of the supporters.

    I do have some impeccable connections to information on Celtic’s efforts to jemmy their way into the EPL, starting way back when the Wimbledon deal was almost struck, through Allan MacDonald’s Atlantic league proposal up to recent the cul-de-sac of the Bolton proposal and Manchester – the final nail in the coffin.

    Much as I would love to have the opportunity to see my team in the EPL, it will never happen if the current circumstances prevail. As Allan MacDonald famously said (or plagiarised), ‘Turkeys don’t vote for Relegation – even English ones!’

  40. Macon Rouge – a commenter on my blog – has offered some extra info regarding what might lead to a seven year company director disqualification:-

    “Paul,
    In support of your original post.
    In Re Sevenoaks Stationers (Retail) Ltd (1990), Dillon LJ, in the Court of Appeal, divided the potential maximum 15 year period of disqualification into three distinct brackets:
    • over 10 years for particularly serious cases (for example, where a director has been disqualified previously);
    • two to five years for ‘relatively not very serious’ cases; and
    • a middle bracket of between six and 10 years for serious cases not meriting the top bracket.

    So, a 7 year disqualification is due to quite but not particularly serious conduct. Certainly not a mere technical breach.”

  41. stunney says:

    JMaclure, I would like to know your feelings regarding Rangers being liquidated, with a new entity, “a Rangers in blue playing at Ibrox” but with a new name taking their place, starting life in a lower division, and with strictly no historic entitlement to the previous club’s achievements. Because I think Mr Whyte seriously countenances that prospect. (And as a Celtic supporter, it is one I would welcome.)

    If a new Celtic were to have been born 15 years ago, but was not the club Jock Stein led to greatness, I doubt I could feel the same devotion to it.

  42. Lord Wobbly says:

    Phil is back to his teasing….

    Pmacgiollabhain This friday is the 28th of October.
    #justreminding

    Pmacgiollabhain Friday is payday at RFC. Lots of pesky
    win bonuses for the players this month. #justsaying

  43. DAVE says:

    Paul Mac.

    Thanks for the reply ,

    It was a 1 to1 and he was adamant that what he told me to be the truth. I agree with what you have said in your post ,there is a lot that would have to happen for it to come to frutition.

    It was my belief though that the premiership was a seperate entity to the english league set up. I do see where you are coming from though.

    As I said , it was a private converstion and I have no need to doubt him. but thanks again.

  44. Private Land says:

    Paulmac

    Well put. And don’t forget that after the attempts to have Clydebank relocate to Dublin whilst staying in the Scottish league; the FA, Irish FA and the SFA smelled a rat before convening a special session of the FIFA council to implement the ridiculous regulations which prevent the type of entry you mention to the English structure.

  45. Lord Wobbly says:

    MWD says:
    24/10/2011 at 7:53 pm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    What’s to stop Rangers fans voting? Will you simply discount the ‘no’ votes as being theirs?

  46. Private Land says:

    Lord Wobbly says:

    24/10/2011 at 8:28 pm

    MWD says:
    24/10/2011 at 7:53 pm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    What’s to stop Rangers fans voting? Will you simply discount the ‘no’ votes as being theirs?
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    I assume you mean the ‘yes’ votes? 🙂

  47. paulmac says:

    Lord Wobbly says:
    24/10/2011 at 8:23 pm

    Phil is back to his teasing….

    Pmacgiollabhain This friday is the 28th of October.
    #justreminding

    Pmacgiollabhain Friday is payday at RFC. Lots of pesky
    win bonuses for the players this month. #justsaying
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Who else thinks he maybe challenging CW..to take it beyond the 60 day cut..thus costing him 2.8m?

    After the Tom English rant…there is every possibility he might just do that…

  48. greengrass says:

    not sure if this is posted as i am still catchin up after work but the lat and long gives this…

    Latitude = 55.7667, Longitude = -4.0333
    Lat = 55 degrees, 46.0 minutes North
    Long = 4 degrees, 2.0 minutes West

    spruce ave or covanburn ave, hamilton…as far as i can make out…

  49. Lord Wobbly says:

    Private Land says:
    24/10/2011 at 8:32 pm
    Lord Wobbly says:
    24/10/2011 at 8:28 pm
    MWD says:
    24/10/2011 at 7:53 pm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    What’s to stop Rangers fans voting? Will you simply discount the
    ‘no’ votes as being theirs?
    ________________________________________________________________
    I assume you mean the ‘yes’ votes?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    oops! In my defence, it’s been a long day.

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